How fast can I go if I decide to train properly? (4:10 over 1500 with 15-20 mpw)

Ok, I'm assuming you're not a troll and have genuinely run 4:10 and sub-2 off a casual 15mpw.

Increase your mileage. Aim for somewhere between 50 and 70 per week. Get there slowly - add 5 to 10 miles a week, there isn't a formula. The general advice is increase mileage by 10% per week but just go by how you feel - think you can add in 10 miles this week? Do it. Not feeling it? Wait until next week.

Do a long run of 12 miles every week (start at 8, work up). 10 mile easy run twice a week, fairly slow pace. 32 miles already.

Two 4 mile tempo runs (hitting a faster pace, let's say 5:20 to 5:45). Up to 40 miles.

Couple of 5 or 6 mile recovery runs, up to 52 miles.

If you want to keep up your long/short interval session pattern, you'll total maybe 6 or 7 miles between the two of them. 59 miles.

Couple of 5 mile base runs, hit your "natural" pace. 69 miles.

Add in a hill session.

70+ miles a week, suggested breakup is off the top of my head, just a general model. It really depends on scheduling vis a vis mileage dedicated to recover etc. Feel free to hit 80+ miles once you've built it up.

As for predictions? I would say assuming you're not a troll, comfortably sub 4. Whether or not you can go sub 3:50 depends on how seriously you take your quality mileage and to an extent your natural speed. Sub-2 800 if genuine is positive.

This is not a troll.

I wouldn't say 15 mpw were casual.

I just don't enjoy long runs, so I'd do something like 12 x 200 @ 28/29 w 90s recovery tuesday, 4 x 1000m @3:10 thursday possibly the aforementioned 8 mile run on the weekend if I felt like it.

I use the other days to relax/regenerate/work.

Decent interval sessions - work up towards 20 x 200m at same pace, 90s rest reasonable.

4 x 1000m also a good session. Follow three week progressions of 4 x 1000, 4 x 1200, 4 x mile, then an easy week, then repeat slightly faster.

8 mile run is a good shout but if you want to improve you'll have the grit your teeth and do a lot more similar runs, some of them pretty slow, some of them at a "good" pace, and then some 3 or 4 milers at a hard pace.

Long run is important because in my opinion part of the reason you dislike the longer stuff is simply a lack of aerobic conditioning - the more of it you do, the easier the easy runs will feel, which makes getting the mileage easier. It also enables you to hit the harder sessions at a better pace - they're always going to feel pretty hard but if you want to improve it's all part of the package.

My biggest problem is that (especially "easy") long runs are pretty boring on my own.

I usually drop the short interval session for an additional long run with some mates in winter, which has brought me to a 36:20 over 10k, so i'm guessing I'm also not completely hopeless in that department..

But i really would like to run a decent (sub-17) 5k time as well.

36 is definitely better than most non-runners (just think of all those 45 to 50 minutes guys who are otherwise fairly "fit") but you can run faster.

There's no way around it - even for 800m/1500m to get better you MUST increase your mileage by quite a lot.

I take your point about long runs being boring by yourself. Try one of two things - find a training partner, or just decide you want it enough to do it anyway. Preferably do both.

So how much do you want it? If you want 3:55 and under in the 1500m, go and train. Get that mileage. Work hard and work smart. Sub 17 5k? Piece of cake if you get that 1500 time down and the mileage in.

e1mr wrote:

I just don't enjoy long runs, so I'd do something like 12 x 200 @ 28/29 w 90s recovery tuesday, 4 x 1000m @3:10 thursday possibly the aforementioned 8 mile run on the weekend if I felt like it.

I hope you realized in this alone you've already mentioned more than 15 miles.

No he hasn't. 8 miles is 12.8km. 12 x 200m is 2400m, 2.4km.

4 x 1000m is 4000m, 4km. Total of 19.2 km. That is 11.9 miles

to avoid boredom, choose more fun places to run, get a person to run with, or do progressions. The tempos would probably lead to the most improvement. And doubling will bump the mileage up without having to go as long per day. You should have little difficulty in breaking 16 pretty soon once you get your mileage to 30 or more.

impossible to answer

Do what Davies says and you can get slower. Add 32 miles of slow/med running for a guy that likes quick workouts is going to make you slower. Might help your 5K & 10K times though

There is no way to tell until you train and race.

I guess you could be a troll because I hate runners that tell you before a race I've only been doing 2 runs a week. Shut up and race.

No way he could get slower - 30 odd miles a week of slower aerobic stuff is to enable enough basic fitness for more specific training.

Seb Coe LOVED shorter faster workouts, he was a 46 second 400m man, but he still did a long sunday run and still did easy 10milers in the mornings. Why? So he had the fitness to run efficiently in race-specific sessions.

Now, if you were a 400/800 runner rather than 800/1500 I would say different - limit mileage to 25 to 35 per week, split 50/50 between 400m sprint training and "traditional" middle distance style interval sessions plus a couple of tempo runs.

But he asked about 1500m and 5000m - MUST have mileage. I'm not asking for Lydiard levels of 100 plus miles a week because that's a bit dumb, and I'm also not suggesting he stops his faster stuff. If I asked him to replace intervals with a slow run then yeah sure he might get slower but I'm asking him to ADD runs.

Plus let's not forget this is the winter base phase I am talking about - there's an old thread about sub 1:50 800m (so shorter than 1500m) and general consensus put mileage for the 4 to 6 month base training period in the 50 to 70mpw range (some suggesting shorter, some suggesting longer).

Therefore I see no reason why it shouldn't be the same for 1500m training - base period of a few months with large mileage, interval sessions and hill repeats to "keep in touch" with speed and strength, easy runs for aerobic base and recovery, and tempo runs for aerobic power and lactate tolerance.

After endurance/base phase the sharpening phase obviously has less mileage, less long runs, and more specific track sessions ie speed sessions at FASTER than race pace and sessions at or just below race race, plus keep up the tempo runs.

Endurance phase gives aerobic conditioning to be really effective in specific sharpening phase (although I still say one longish run a week for endurance purposes, but definitely not within 2 weeks of an important race).

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719

^There's the 800m thread if interested, very long, a LOT of ideas floating around including some great faster track work, but when people say mileage is important take note (but in my opinion ignore the Lydiard more than 100 miles a week types).

I certainly think for speedier types short intervals with short rest is a solid middle distance training session and if you do what a lot of the pros do (build mileage and aerobic conditioning in a 3 to 5 month base phase while "touching" on speed once or twice a week) you'll have the fitness to really hammer out these essential sessions when the time comes.

I assure you I'm not trolling.

I've known that I have a certain aptitude for running for a long time but have never had sufficient coaching and/or support to view it as more than a fun passtime.

I started athletics aged 7 and quickly realised that running was my best discipline. Nevertheless I continued training in pretty much all disciplines until aged 15, when I first got some real middle distance coaching in the sense that I atleast got some structure behind my interval sessions and decided to focus solely on running.

I guess I should point out here that I am not US-based and any sporting activities take place outside of school, which for me was a 45min commute away from home. This made things a bit more complicated/time intensive for me - on those days when I came home from school at 5:30 I hadn't even started my homework and I had to get up at 6am the next morning. Factor in the usual pubescent distractions on weekends and I guess you can figure why I was never too keen on high mileage.

Now that I am starting university I am hoping to actually have more time on my hands, due to saving time on the commute and being able to make my own timetables.

I want to know what I can hope to be aiming for and especially how I actually should proceed in order to reach my goals, as my present coach/club (though being nice) is completely useless when it comes to middle distance running, as it is predominantly a seniors running club where people are proud of 10k under 40min.

Where are you based/what university are you starting?

Western/Middle Europe.

Will start to study Econ with Mathematics.

How fast you run does not depend on your physical talent but more on your state of mind. You can have all the physical talent in the world but if you don't work hard you will achieve nothing.