How hard is it to break 27 8k?

Yes.

Do another down week c.45 again the week before school.

maybe but not assured either way.

27 is 5:24/mi and your best 5k is slower than that.

if you can, extend your tempo to 5 miles staying at 5:50

don't overdo it on the hills/200s. the tempos are more important.

hold 70 mpw for as long as possible.

i was in about 35:20/16:50 shape when I ran 27:40s in my opener last year.

i'd say that sub 16:30 is a must to think about sub 27. you may not get a chance to race a 5k, but if you can do 4x1 mile in 5:20-5:25 with 400m jogs, you should be good to go

sort of hard, if you are a woman. I assume by your 10k time that you are a woman...

Thanks for the replies...

I understand that my 5k indicates a much slower 8k than I'm aiming for... The reason I think it is even possible to improve so much is because of the rate I was improving at last spring. My highschool training was a total joke and my 5k was over 18min before last year, and I set a new PR at pretty much every outdoor meet. I also didn't break 30 minutes in the 8k my first collegiate cross season. I haven't raced at all since outdoor, but I feel as though my fitness has improved even though I haven't done any intervals or race specific stuff, mainly because I've never consistently done weeks over 50 miles like I'm doing now, and I've never even sniffed a 70 mile week or done doubles.

If I had been stuck in the high 16s for a while and had been training consistently up until that point, I would definitely consider a lesser goal, like sub 28. But since I'm essentially in uncharted training territory, I expect to be in uncharted race territory this fall and spring as well.

I'm not really sure if that's just optimism, or if it is a valid assumption to make.

keanu wrote:

sort of hard, if you are a woman. I assume by your 10k time that you are a woman...

Sorry to disappoint you, Women usually race 6k in cross.

I'm just slow and run because I enjoy it.

You are on the right track but it isn't easy. I was at about the same level as a college soph and never did break it--with better training probably should have.

(xc times)

Fresh - 27:30 (just upped miles from 40 in summer to 60-70)

Soph - 27:00 best summer of training (65-70)

Junior - 27:05 (injured most of summer [June-July], but built up right as season/speedwork started so plateau'd early)

Senior - 27:10 (had great off season with 33:00-33:30 10Ks on the roads, but was injured in August and missed a month, and never got back into top shape during season)

My 5Ks were mid-low 16s at the time.

[for some hope, my post college career was much better and about a year after finishing I was running sub 27, and after another year of very consistent training I was under 26 minutes]

You will need to get that 5K under 16:30, and preferably down to 16:10 or faster. Miles help. As someone here recommended, take a drop down week before you start school. Once there make sure you get in easy (I mean easy) recovery runs at least once a week. Your tempo runs will need to be in the 5:40 range, but don't force it either. You have to work into it.

You do realize the course totally makes the difference right? You must live in some area where every course is extremely flat and the surface is low-cut grass or something like that.

oh, I'm sorry, but they race 8k at USAs. I figured you were some post-collegiate woman.

keanu wrote:

oh, I'm sorry, but they race 8k at USAs. I figured you were some post-collegiate woman.

Well you must be an idiot because his post states right away that he is going into his second year of college.

Keanu - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT4B-NJUcZE

if you want to run 26:50, you're going to have to increase your fitness by changing your workouts. like others have suggested--increase your tempo runs to 5M, add 2-3 weekly recovery runs (perhaps start in a few weeks to get your body adapted to it before the season starts).

you probably are more fit than you have ever been, and if you had poor training in high school, and are doing well now, then your upside is pretty big, and you'll have some good races this fall. look at your schedule and do your homework on the courses: what courses are typically faster? what's the weather typically like? knowing that information can help you target 2-3 serious attempts for 26:50.

When you're racing, really go after it and compete. Find people who are supposedly better than you, and stick with them in the race, then act like you belong up there--it's OK for you to be up in the front or in chase packs.

Remember, if you want to get a time you've never run before, you're going to have to race in a way you've never raced before.

I would put you closer to 27:30 based on your 5k time. If you continue to improve it is definitely possible. I remember when I was in college and PRd for 8k the first time, I went through the 5k mark right at my 5k PR, and I was like, 'Oh sh*t, I still have 3k to run!' Anyway, I think your time indicates you can flirt with the 27 barrier, and certainly if you continue to improve.

I ran a 5M tempo in 26:40s a few years ago. At the time, I was running workouts at something like 12x400-68-69 and 3xmile-avg. 4:57. Most of my tempos had been around 5:30 pace for 4-5 miles before the breakthrough. So, just keep at the tempos and you'll gradually drop the time. It might take a year or two, as you want to be able to run closer to 16 flat 5k, at the very least.

It's not hard. I didn't think twice about it because I wanted to break the school record.

Looking at your training, this summer build to a peak of close to 100 mi/week with just hard running. Don't do any workouts, just hammer day-in and day-out, non-stop.

Then, when you get back to "camp" and school, try and average around 70 mi/week all year, races weeks and non-race weeks, and I guarantee you will break 27.

Sub 27 is totally doable for you. IMHO, many college runners see their biggest improvement between freshman and sophomore years- this could be you. I do think 50 mpw is too low though. 70 would be much better. Good luck.

caught me trolling hard

I'd say that 27:xx is definitely possible. It sounds like you're doing a good mix of stuff, including the 200s and hill bursts; I'd recommend adding some doubles, though your weekly total still might not exceed 70 (see: Summer of Malmo). Doubles allow increased mileage with less stress and easier recovery.

[You're likely to get a bit of a down week before the season, whether you like it or not (prep for returning to school, schedule disruption, whatever). That's okay, but you needn't drop to 45mpw from 70, as someone suggested--that'd be pretty dramatic.]

I'd say that with continued progress (and, as another poster said, a lot of guys make *good* progress in their soph seasons) you've got a solid shot at going under 27 on a "standard" course. But make sure that you finish the summer *generally* fit--ready to train, not ready for your fastest race of the season! The really race-specific stuff (5mi tempos, etc.) can wait, IMHO.

In any case, it'd be great if you'd bump this thread periodically (maybe another time or two in the summer, and a couple times in the season) to let us know how it goes!

Oldespice wrote:

I'm going into my 2nd year of collegiate athletics. Last spring, I ran 16:49 and around 35:00 on the track. I ran those times on about 50 MPW with a good amount of quality work.

This summer, I started at 35 MPW and worked my way up to 60 with no doubles, am currently taking a down week (45) then will go 65,70, and stay at 70 until I get to school and racing starts. All of my weeks have included a tempo (usually 3-4 miles around 5:50 pace), a 90min long run (usually between 12 and 13 miles) and some speed work (200s, hill bursts.) I feel like I'm the fittest I've been... is sub 27 on a decent course a reasonable goal?

Your "tempo runs" are too fast. I'd slow them down to 6:10-15, and aim to extend the time at that pace instead of speeding up.

“They haven’t been in the college program where we’re running 5:45-6:00 minute mile pace all the time. Our recovery days are 6:15. Well, they are still training as a high school kid who runs 6:30-7:00 pace for a lot of it.”

The team has toned most summer runs down to 6:15-6:20 pace. But, Smith says, “Any given day that can change. Somebody might get ticked off at somebody and things get rolling and pretty soon they’re running 5:45’s.”

Starting in July, Smith has his athletes build to full mileage. That ranges from 65-75 a week for the freshmen to 100-plus for certain seniors. In contrast to the freshmen, Smith doesn’t structure the upper classmen’s week, other than requiring them to do a Sunday long run and a second mid-week long run. “The long run is typically 20-25 percent of our weekly volume depending on the guy,” says Smith. “The young guys might get to 90 minutes to 1:45 by the end of the cross country. The older guys are typically doing two hours. Midweek it’s 90 minutes for most of the guys

In early to mid-August, the team comes together and practice begins in mid-August.