take your pic. I will go with El G on this one. Rudisha would take it through in like 1:45, but fall hard. Now at 1000m, Rudisha would likely take it out in 1:43 and cruise in as Hicham dies with 200 to go.
You can ignore the predicted times for rudisha as he doesn't do the necessary endurance work for his theoretical times to "last" beyond likely 900m or so.
Have any of you ever competed in a race at a high level? David Rudisha has run 1:40.91 and he did that from the front. The man is not going to lead against Hicham El Guerrouj. So, let's say Hicham takes them through 800m in 1:48. Remember, Hicham is used to having rabbits in his record performances. Are there rabbits here? If not, then Hicham IS the rabbit, and David is going to come through 800m in 1:48 and although he is going to be a bit tired, he is going to be far from zapped. Remember, Rudisha is going to be the hunter, and he is following Hicham. Hicham, having served as the rabbit this time, is not going to be running a race commensurate with his records, because he does not have rabbits. Now is when things get interesting. It is true that Rudisha is a bit of an unknown beyond 800m. However, everybody agrees that he can come through 1000m in 2:15 and not be entirely zapped. Hicham is sort of in the same boat, except he is the rabbit. Now Hicham is probably slightly closer to his max at 1000m at 2:15 than David is, but of course Hicham has more staying power, and he is going to need it because he is doing the work and a man who ran under 1:41 without a rabbit now has one and this is why Rudisha has at least a 50/50 chance in this race, and to dismiss him as the loser here is to manifest a complete and utter lack of understanding regarding racing dynamics and tactics.
Have any of you ever competed in a race at a high level? David Rudisha has run 1:40.91 and he did that from the front. The man is not going to lead against Hicham El Guerrouj. So, let's say Hicham takes them through 800m in 1:48. Remember, Hicham is used to having rabbits in his record performances. Are there rabbits here? If not, then Hicham IS the rabbit, and David is going to come through 800m in 1:48 and although he is going to be a bit tired, he is going to be far from zapped. Remember, Rudisha is going to be the hunter, and he is following Hicham. Hicham, having served as the rabbit this time, is not going to be running a race commensurate with his records, because he does not have rabbits. Now is when things get interesting. It is true that Rudisha is a bit of an unknown beyond 800m. However, everybody agrees that he can come through 1000m in 2:15 and not be entirely zapped. Hicham is sort of in the same boat, except he is the rabbit. Now Hicham is probably slightly closer to his max at 1000m at 2:15 than David is, but of course Hicham has more staying power, and he is going to need it because he is doing the work and a man who ran under 1:41 without a rabbit now has one and this is why Rudisha has at least a 50/50 chance in this race, and to dismiss him as the loser here is to manifest a complete and utter lack of understanding regarding racing dynamics and tactics.
That is true about Hicham el Guerrouj having rabbits in his record races but he doesn't need a rabbit. In the 2004 Athens Olympics el Guerrouj after 600m of the 1500m he decided to become the rabbit and he pushed the pace by sets of 100m bursts. El Guerrouj is not the type to leave the race up to the last 50-200m. El Guerrouj will wear Rudisha out before he gets the chance to kick.
El G by a comfortable margin, I'm sure Rudisha could keep it close for 1000m but El G would blow him away those last 200m. This is a guy who ran 3:26 and thought he was capable of running 3:24-5. That means he could come through 800m of a 1500 in 1:48!!! A 1200 record type attempt he could come through in at least 1:45 no problem and still have enough to close in 53-54. I'll bet he coulda run under 2:40. I don't think Rudisha could do much better than 2:42-44 given his current training. Maybe a few years of 1500 training and he'd be even with El G
I think El G would give Coe a run for his money at 1200m and you know Coe would easily handle Rudisha at 1200m.
I can't think of a strategy where Rudisha beats El G.
Rudisha has the ability to take it out in under 1:45, making a big gap an not be maxed out but he would still struggle hard over that last lap and El G would pick him off.
If Rudisha lets El G lead then El G would make it fast enough to put Rudisha in oxygen debt at 800m but easy enough to leave a nice kick for himself.
Watch El G in 2003 take over without a rabbit and run 3:31.7.
Newsflash - El G isn't exactly going to be wiped out after coming through 800 at 1500 pace.
Another moron surfaces. If Hicham came through 800m in 1:48, that is 3:22.5 pace for 1500m, so it is not 1500m pace for anybody. It is not going to be an easy pace for him when he has no rabbits.
He's acting as the rabbit for Mehdi Baala, who has PR's of 1:43.15 and 3:28.98, and Baala still can't overtake him in the end.
He can go out in 1:50 against Rudisha from the front and pick up the pace from there.
Rudisha can't accelerate off of that pace, even if was drafting off of him. He'd just be trying to hang on.
Nobody really knows what Rudisha can do here, so it is preposterous for you to assert that he "can't accelerate off of" 1:50 pace, when he very well might be able to. Remember, we are comparing 2 world record holders and only one is going to feel pressure to force the pace.
In separate time trials, the advantage goes to Hicham, obviously. But in a race between them, it is not clear at all.
You can ignore the predicted times for rudisha as he doesn't do the necessary endurance work for his theoretical times to "last" beyond likely 900m or so.
Hicham would take it and it wouldn't be close.
I always wondered about El G. performances in the 800m beside what we heard of his doing in the training.
You can ignore the predicted times for rudisha as he doesn't do the necessary endurance work for his theoretical times to "last" beyond likely 900m or so.
Hicham would take it and it wouldn't be close.
That's a weird analysis. First you do some conversions for both runners that suggest that Rudisha would win but it would be close. Then you say, "ignore the conversions - El G would win in a blowout."
You can ignore the predicted times for rudisha as he doesn't do the necessary endurance work for his theoretical times to "last" beyond likely 900m or so.
Hicham would take it and it wouldn't be close.
I always wondered about El G. performances in the 800m beside what we heard of his doing in the training.
British posters can wonder how Steve Cram would have done racing 800m in Olympics or World Championships. At least Cram raced 800m in regional meets like European Championships &/or Common Wealth Games. el G. would have been no better than J.I. at 800m. It is 100% b.s. for posters on this site to speculate that el G. was a secret sub-1:44 800m man.
* If el G. had sub-1:44 800m in him el G. would have raced 800m in Mediterranean Games;
* If el G. had sub-1:44 800m in him, he would have raced 800m in African Games;
* If el G. had sub-1:44 800m in him, he would have raced 800m at African Championships;
* If el G. had sub-1:44 800m in him, he would not have raced scared. He always had to be in the lead pushing the pace with either 1200m to go or 600m to go in 1500m races. That is fear of being outkicked by (1:42.xx to 1:45.xx) 800m men.
You are showing us a video of a race longer than 800m, correct? Do you have video of el G. racing 400m &/or 800m in a small meet and racing fast? Do you have video of a 400m TT or video of an 800m TT you would like to share? el G. was a great 1500m/1 mile, 2000m/3000m/5000m runner. Just leave it at that.