What to expect from my HS runners after major mileage bump

Forgot to mention their average XC times from last year. I hate XC times, because every course is different, etc. etc. But anyways.

Runner A: 17:45

Runner B: 18:00

Runner C: 20:30 (serious improvement from him already)

Runner D: 18:10

Runner E: 18:05

Runner F: 18:25

that progression looks good on paper but it can be daunting past 50 mpw. do they run 7 days/week?

I hope this is successful. of those guys, i could see a few in the 4:30s this season and maybe 10:10s at best depending on talent.

also, you may want to keep their paces in check. no need for any of those guys to be running faster than 7:00/mi most days.

reed wrote:

that progression looks good on paper but it can be daunting past 50 mpw. do they run 7 days/week?

I hope this is successful. of those guys, i could see a few in the 4:30s this season and maybe 10:10s at best depending on talent.

also, you may want to keep their paces in check. no need for any of those guys to be running faster than 7:00/mi most days.

Noted on the mileage past 50 mpw. From my own experience, I am going to monitor them even more closely in a couple weeks.

I "hide" a lot of the mileage in warm-ups, cool downs and jog rest for the fartleks and tempo runs. They don't realize at the end of some days they have covered 7-8 miles, but only 2-3 was at a hard effort.

There only two guys (A and E) that approach sub-7:00 on runs, and it is maybe once or twice a week; I like them to push the second half their long runs.

They do run 7 days/week. I have no plans for doubles. If I see they are suffering a bit after 50-55, I will likely hold them there.

Thanks.

If they've only been running 25 miles max in track season and 33 in the winter, I wouldn't have them run any more than 50 in the summer. Many of them may be able to handle it, but you're risking injury/overtraining. Many injuries just spring up without warning, so monitoring them closely won't necessarily avoid any injury.

I am not a coach, so I won't give any advice, but I can give you my experience from back in the 80s. I ran no more than 35 miles a week during my freshman, sophomore and junior years. A teammate convinced me to join him in a concerted effort before senior XC. I don't remember the exact training regimen, but I think we got north of 50 miles per week, but not much more. I also started lifting for the first time and bulked up from 105 lbs to 112. We ran odd distances back then, but I dropped my 5K equivalent from about 17:00 to 16:10. The real dividends came in the spring though. During the school year we kept doing the 35 miles per week with the team, but met 5 days a week before school for 5 miles. My junior year outdoor times were 2:06, 4:40 and 9:59. I focused on the 800 and 1600 and ran 1:59, 4:28 and 9:40 senior spring.

The summer before college I doubled down and ran 65 to 80 miles all summer, with a couple of peak weeks north of 100 in August. I ran 25:48 for 5 miles and 32:30 for 10K in cross. I then ran a 4:00 1500 and a 9:12 2-mile indoors, and a 15:23 5K outdoors. Sadly, the gains for the next three years were incremental, and now my high school son and daughter are both much faster than me. Good luck to your kids!

grfgrdfs wrote:

If they've only been running 25 miles max in track season and 33 in the winter, I wouldn't have them run any more than 50 in the summer. Many of them may be able to handle it, but you're risking injury/overtraining. Many injuries just spring up without warning, so monitoring them closely won't necessarily avoid any injury.

Thank you for the input. Exellent point on the possibility of a sudden injury. Much appreciated.

I am hoping a couple other boys pan out (not here for the summer), so the team is somewhat backed up in case of an injury.

One of my years coaching in college, I had a very solid women's team (Top 30 ranking), but we were only 5 deep. We lost one for the season at Pre Nats and another got very ill the week of the conference meet. We were crap after those two went down.

I'll add my experience. Started running sophomore year, our coach wasn't the best, and the upperclassmen hated running. At most, we would be doing 20-30 miles a week, often less because the seniors would cut our distance runs short. Pretty much the program you're inheriting.

The summer before senior year, the top four of us decided to take our training into our own hands and bump up the mileage and get serious. Our build was similar to yours, we got up to high 50's mpw, although workouts were a rare occasion during the summer.

In the beginning of the season, the bump in mileage definitely made my legs a little heavy, I felt very tired all the time, and just generally sucked. However, I came into the season with a time matching my pr from last year.

As the season progressed, our group became a lot better at handling the mileage. The workouts became a much better quality, and by end-season the four of us all ran 45-60s better than the year before, going from the top guy around 18:30 to our fourth guy struggling to break 19 (I was 3rd at 18:50) to our top guy running mid 17's, and our 4th guy running 18:15 (I got down to 18:0x). Times are from the Sunken Meadow course on Long Island, which is kinda known for being a tough course and having slowish times (100% an excuse for my mediocre times, got down to 17:00 in college though).

So, from personal experience, I would expect them to feel that the mileage bump really sucks at first, but it will definitely pay off dividends. Keep an eye on them, make sure none are slacking, but also make sure no one is pushing their limit and setting themselves up for injury.

What to expect: The unexpected. It is extremely unpredictable how HS kids handle the mileage. some get badly injured, others make massive performance leaps, others need more quality and its not just mileage alone. some of which have short term improvements or problems, others have long term problems or improvement

runner A looks like he has a great deal more natural speed than the others. if he stays consistant with the mileage, that 800 will drop under 2 and the mile will easily drop under 430. 53/2:02 ain't too shabby for a guy who "only" runs 4:50 and 17:high

I would expect 2 of them to get a lot faster, 2 of them to get moderately faster and 2 of them to get injured.

You have a lot of additional work with lifting twice a week, doing a body circuit, drills, abs and the stretching. That is all extra stress PLUS they are more than doubling their mileage in a relatively short time.

If I could only change one thing, I would give them actual recovery weeks. As it is, you back off 5 miles for one week every 4th week or so, and that is essential not even noticeable to the body. It's really just a straight progression from 25 mpw up to 60 mpw. I would make their recover week about 60% of whatever their previous big week was. For instance...

25 (1)

30 (1.2)

40 (1.6)

25 (1)

This 4 week period averages 30mpw, which is the set point for the next 4 weeks.

30 (1)

36 (1.2)

48 (1.6)

30 (1)

4 week average of 36

35 (1)

42 (1.2)

56 (1.6)

35 (1)

4 week average of 42

42 (1)

50 (1.2)

67 (1.6)

42 (1)

4 week average of 50

In this manner there is are noticeable increases in both stress and rest. I find that a straight progression as you had intended leads to a stale runner, which is much more likely to get injured. Those third weeks, the big ones, are exciting for young runners and those are the weeks they need to and are more likely to get more sleep, eat better, etc. They can handle that sort of discipline for the big weeks, but it is extremely unlikely they can handle it for nearly 15 weeks straight. They are not professionals, they don't understand the lifestyle yet, and are not old enough to have that sort of willpower.

I was really hoping everyone would come on here and say my team was going to be AWESOME!

The idea of backing off significantly every down week is worth a try. My next down week I will give it a shot. Thanks.

Runner A has some great potential. He also plays football. He cannot see the writing on the wall. He is 5-6, 115 lbs. He is a third stringer on the JV as of this spring. However, I will never ask him to quit/give up football. I played football all through college even though I was a smaller player, so I understand the drive to play--it's fun.

Because he is one of our most important runners, I literally find him every day at lunch to see if he was injured during the athletic period. And then when he shows up every morning, I check to see if he is hobbling due to something from the afternoon practice. He has been banged up a few times, and it has cetainly affected his training/races. I hope he will see the light and not play next year as a senior, but that is doubtful.

Your team IS going to be awesome, eventually. Have to be patient though.

These 6 kids need to realize they are just the seed for something amazing that is going to blossom at the school one day in the future. Let them know that, yes they are going to get faster, however, they are not just running for themselves, but for the kids in elementary school in their community. They are helping to build a program that in 5-7 years will be so strong that these original 6 will not likely feature on the schools' top-25 all-time list in any of the annual races the school does, and yet those 25 kids on the all-time lists would never be able to run so fast if it weren't for them.

Consider taking them over to the elementary school to talk to the kids about playing outside as much as possible and to tell them they are building up a team for them. Those are the kids they are running for, not just themselves.

That progressions is something a coach draws up and is totally unrealistic for most kids. There is never really a down week to recovery. Those lower mileage weeks would have been peak mileage weeks just 3 weeks ago. I tried doing something similiar to this in HS. It worked well until the august. It was easy to build from 35 to 70 mpw (after running ~40-50 during track). But then I tried to alternate 70 and 60 mpw (i.e. the supposed recovery week) and picked up minor injuries. Looking back every 3rd week I should have dropped the mileage a lot (70 to like 40) probably would have allowed enough recovery. But at 17, I thought I was being sane by not bumping the mileage up to 80. After all I was feeling pretty good after running 70......The idea of more mileage is sound. The guy running 18 mins on 30 miles a week will be a 16:30 guy at 60 mpw on average but you can't rush the process. Mileage build ups are multiyear things not stuff you do over the summer. Bumping your crew from 30 to 50 should result in a huge improvment. Personally i would skip the going to 60 step. This season. Maybe do 1 or 2 high mileage weeks but don't try and keep the kids at that level.

reed wrote:

that progression looks good on paper but it can be daunting past 50 mpw. do they run 7 days/week?

I hope this is successful. of those guys, i could see a few in the 4:30s this season and maybe 10:10s at best depending on talent.

also, you may want to keep their paces in check. no need for any of those guys to be running faster than 7:00/mi most days.

Thank you all for your serious responses. That is hard to come by on Letsrun some days.

I am certainly concerned about the possibility of injuries.

My knee jerk reaction is hold them at 50 mpw for the remainder of the month of July, then back off for a much better recovery week our first official week in August. I have not met with them since Tuesday this week, and will not see them until Monday, so I am fairly certain they are getting a good rest week now.

I am a bit paranoid of injuries since my college imploded due to those two women.

One other note, I do have a few girls who are going to push for about 45 mpw this season, off of less mileage than the boys were doing.

*college team

Wait... So these are 5k times? If they are, you either have a very hilly region or your guys really do need this mileage. I run 20:30 and I run a 5:24 and 2:32.

Not hilly enough to consider that they are faster than what their times say they are. I agree--they need the mileage.

Going on past results at our district meet, if we get 4 in the top 15 (which is typically sub 17:30), we can be top 3, and likely challenge for the win.

How were you a D-1 coach, but played football all through college? Those two don't really go together.

Runcogrun wrote:

How were you a D-1 coach, but played football all through college? Those two don't really go together.

Mainly an 800m guy. I played WR at a small college, so doing both was not an issue. However, most of my very good friends were the distance runners.

Like many of the coaching jobs you see filled today, you ask yourself, "How the hell did he/she get that job?" I was one of those.

I was in the right place at the right time. Intending to be a grad assistant for whatever event area they needed, the XC coach was let go, and they needed someone who they could "control" (eager enough to jump at the job, but inexperienced enough to not know when they're being screwed until it's too late). My college coach was/is a very good distance coach, so I leaned on him extensively that first year and a half until I felt comfortable.