Memo to USATF, if you are going to accept 47 guys into USAs for the 1500s, please run 3 rounds and stop the incompetence

We just tweeted out the following:

Who should be fired @USATrack_Field? Last yr they had 3 rounds of 1500 w 30 entrants. This yr 2 rounds w 47. Stupid.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5242197

You do realize that your own posts shows that there are, in fact, three heats, righ

ummmmmmmm wrote:

You do realize that your own posts shows that there are, in fact, three heats, righ

3 heats, not 3 rounds.

There was a long message board thread on this issue last night, but for some reason the moderators deleted it. It was informative, respectful, and on topic. Bizarre.

ummmmmmmm wrote:

You do realize that your own posts shows that there are, in fact, three heats, righ

Round is not the same thing as a heat.

For once I agree with Letsrun, there is too much room for error with only two rounds.

They should just start it as a straight final.

To add to the madness, check out the enormous disparity between heats 1 and 2:

Heat 1 Prelims

1 Jordan McNamara Nike / Oregon TC

2 Miles Batty Asics

3 David Torrence Nike

4 Riley Masters Oklahoma

5 Andrew Bayer Indiana Univ

6 Matthew Elliott Brooks

7 Michael Atchoo Stanford Uni

8 Chris Fallon Ohio State

9 Lopez Lomong Nike

10 Kirubel Erassa Oklahoma Sta

11 Patrick Casey Oklahoma

12 Alex Hatz Unattached

13 Graham Morris Illinois

14 Patrick Todd Oregon

15 William Leer Nike

16 Leonel Manzano Unattached

Heat 2 Prelims

1 Joseph Stilin Unattached

2 Brett Johnson Oregon

3 Tommy Schmitz Unattached

4 Jack Bolas New Balance

5 Andrew Springer Georgetown U

6 Garrett Heath Saucony

7 Christian Gonzalez NJNYTC

8 Ryan Hill N C State

9 Isaac Presson North Carolina

10 Mac Fleet Oregon

11 Craig Miller New Balance

12 Mack McLain Boulder Runn

13 Tony Jordanek Unattached

14 Robby Creese Penn State

15 Jeff See Saucony

16 Richard Harasyn Unattached

Heat 1 is way too loaded, and who the hell are some of those guys in Heat 2? However you spin it this is another f**kup from USATF. Sheesh.

If an athlete can't take first or second in their heat, they aren't going to medal at worlds. If they aren't going to medal at worlds, who cares if they don't make the final at USAs?

No legit medal contender is going to stay home because of the fact that there are only two rounds.

This may not be as bad as it looks at first glance. Heat 3 will be last, so the guys in this heat know the times of the fourth finishers in heats 1 & 2. This means the first six guys in heat 3 can make it to the Final by having faster times than these two. You start heat 3 knowing exactly what minimum time you have to run if you end up fourth, fifth or sixth in your heat. It is quite possible heats 1 & 2 will send only three each to the final. It will help runners 4, 5 and six in heat 3 if the first three run relatively fast, which is to be expected.

M1500 wrote:

This may not be as bad as it looks at first glance. Heat 3 will be last, so the guys in this heat know the times of the fourth finishers in heats 1 & 2. This means the first six guys in heat 3 can make it to the Final by having faster times than these two. You start heat 3 knowing exactly what minimum time you have to run if you end up fourth, fifth or sixth in your heat. It is quite possible heats 1 & 2 will send only three each to the final. It will help runners 4, 5 and six in heat 3 if the first three run relatively fast, which is to be expected.

But it never seems to work out that nice and orderly. And what you describe is exactly why this is so bad. All three of the time qualifiers will likely come from the same heat, but it may not necessarily be the third heat.

I'd rather see top four and no time qualifiers or top two and six time qualifiers than the three and three crap. Every decision the USATF has made on the 1500 has been wrong.

Meanwhile, I'll be stunned if 15 guys are on the line for the 5000. They only accepted 18 (only event with no provisionals?) knowing that the two Steeple guys probably won't show up given that the Steeple final ends 25 minutes before the start of the 5000. Then most of the other 5000 guys will have run either the 10000 or the 1500 and a couple of those guys probably won't show up just due to health attrition or not needing it.

Back to what I said in the strangely deleted thread-

Why doesn't USATF list their number of athletes that they'll accept and take that many, regardless of time. If they want to do three heats, the take either 30 or 36. If its two heats, take 24. In the 5k take 20 or however many they think works.

But listing an arbitrary time and then being locked in is ridiculous.

They really should do it fairly close to how indoor NCAAs is run (except I think they should make their A standard extremely hard to attain and just fill in the field for the remaining entries.

The same thing happened in 2009. The 1500m A standard was way too easy, and they went from 48 runners to 12 runners in one round.

Original Gangsta wrote:

Back to what I said in the strangely deleted thread-

Why doesn't USATF list their number of athletes that they'll accept and take that many, regardless of time. If they want to do three heats, the take either 30 or 36. If its two heats, take 24. In the 5k take 20 or however many they think works.

But listing an arbitrary time and then being locked in is ridiculous.

They really should do it fairly close to how indoor NCAAs is run (except I think they should make their A standard extremely hard to attain and just fill in the field for the remaining entries.

They should just do it like the NCAA. WE're going to take the top ****.

LetsRun.com wrote:

Heat 2 Prelims

1 Joseph Stilin Unattached

I hope this is one of your typos, that would rock

I kind of like this. These athletes will have to race, not jog 3 laps and kick. If you aren't in the front or middle of the pack at the bell, you have no chance. We should see some fast times.

"let in fewer people"

Why the hate for Stilin? He ran 3:39 and 13:33 this year. He's legit. From his blog he really wanted to run the 5k this year, but he was not accepted. Considering how many of the 5k runners will scratch, you have to feel for him. Plus, one of the quotes from his blog about the Oxy race where he ran his PR (That 13:33), "600 meters separate myself and the finish. 'Why did you come here?' I think about the plain white singlet on my chest. No name on my chest. The money I don't have that I spent to get here. I think about missing the Olympic Trials last year by two spots in the 5,000 and one spot in the 1,500. I'm not representing anyone but myself. The USATF A standar is 13:30. The clock reads 12 minutes flat. I need some magic."

Hard to not root for a guy like that.

rojo wrote:

They should just do it like the NCAA. WE're going to take the top ****.

Thanks for agreeing Rojo.

Now that I have you, can you let me know why so many of my (and others') posts have been getting deleted? I wrote the same post as above a few days ago and the entire thread vanished. When I posted asking why it happened, that got deleted.

Who are the mods and why do you let them rule this place with an iron mouse?

Three rounds would mean a finalist would run 3 races in 4 days -- in late-June Iowa weather. Alternately, you could extend the meet to an extra day or two...at great cost...for the purposes of one event.

Agreed. I am not a fan of Texas nor Princeton but Joe Stilin is a great guy and a tough competitor. If i recall correctly, he was about a 4:16 miler in HS. He's come a long way. A level-headed, hardworking, midwestern kid.