The state of oregon track and field

With the recent success of Chris Derrick and girls cross country Stanford looks like the better option

A few points in defense of Oregon:

- I'm not so sure they have had the best all around recruiting classes in all events. At the very least I have my doubts that anyone even knows how good a class is including "experts". Its just hard to track that. Maybe their classes have been more hyped on this site but that doesn't mean much.

- NCAA scoring is inherently skewed toward sprint events that Oregon never claimed to be great at.

- Over recent years they have been hands down the best school at middle distances.

As I pointed out in another thread, the 5000/10000M events really stand out as an area where the Oregon coaches have been lackluster and disappointing in relation to the Oregon tradition in those events. It seems like they have gotten highly touted recruits for those events but they haven't developed as well as you would think they could have. None of the recruits have been busts exactly. But none of them have been great breakouts either.

Andy Powell definitely knows what he is doing coaching track.

I suspect a problem could be that their recruiting analysis is not very good. It seems like they are getting hyped recruits based off of some great performances in high school but which don't necessarily mean they have great upside.

I think of Puskedra. I recall him being a big time blue chip distance runner when Oregon recruited him. I can't speak to how Oregon helped developed him but I look at him and I just don't see great talent that can compete at an elite level. Nothing against him. And in the end he performed well at Oregon by any reasonable standard. Just nothing that would make Rawson say "that is a 'wow'".

Well, Oregon men were what ? 4th this year ? So they beat every one of the schools you mentioned. Also, remember that Dunbar was injured this year - he would have been top 5 easy in the 5K. Oregon women ? Won XC and indoor this year. Had some bad breaks at the NCAAs with Gardner, Hasay not making the 10K on a fluke, and a meltdown in the 1500m. Sometimes it happens. The state of Oregon T&F is strong.

they should put more emphasis on xc if they want to be a distance powerhouse

Yes, what a goofy post. The state of Oregon track and field looks pretty damn good to most of us. They won a women's Indoor championship this year, they won a XC championship this year. They have been multiple year champions of the Pac 12 and Western Regionals, they finished 3rd and 4th at Nationals this year, with multiple National Champions. In recent years, Oregon has produced Andy Wheating, Ashton Eaton, Matt Centrowitz, Galen Rupp, Elijah Greer, Mac Fleet to name a few.

OR women's distance recruiting the last couple years has not been as good as it was. This fall's recruits are not the top-notch hs stars as well.

We'll see "lowered expectations" take effect this fall with the xc team, especially with Jordan moving on and no one to take over as the clear team leader w/AA creds.

I forgot about Dunbar being injured. But then that gets to my point above. Dunbar was running at a relatively high level before he came to Oregon. What has he done at Oregon? You can chalk it up to bad luck with the injury. But when the bad break and flukes start adding up one should start being skeptical about it all just being bad luck.

Dunbar had arthroscopic knee surgery in early February. Had he been healthy he would have been a factor in the 5K. He ran 3:41.80 for 1500 last night. It was his 3rd time in spikes in 2013.

Oregon soph Chad Noelle just missed the 1500 final. 12 made the final and he was 13th. He ran a personal best of 3:41.09 to win the 1500 at the Portland track Festival last night.

Mike Berry didn't make the 400 final as was expected.

A couple of things could have gone better this year for Oregon, but I think that they fared pretty well, all things considered.

I'd also like to add.

Oregon's ability to develop its athlete's isn't as poor as you think. I don't know why this thread got deleted. But there was one talking about how Oregon had 10 athletes at sup 3:45 or better.

Matt Minor, Chad Noelle Jeremy Elkaim, all breaking 4. Those guys averaged about 4:09 miles in highschool.

They took Brett Johnson from 3:44? (under Vig, no less) to 3:38 in 1 year. Stuck with Mac and brought a guy that everyone gave up on back to a NCAA champion. (Mac was notoriously injury prone in high school, cant blame that on Oregon)

Greer only broke 1:50 two times in high school, both in races with college athletes that went out hard. Otherwise with even splits he was a 1:50-1:51 guy. Now with even splits he is a 1:46 guy.

Oregon also has to deal with the issue that most of their recruits have less upside. A lot of their athletes come into the school training at a high level.

Stanford has done little to indicate their value, they've gotten recruits and haven't seen much. Dylan Ferris, Rosa twins, No NCAA qualifiers in distance events. If I recall, Derrick didn't win a national title until he LEFT the school.

about the academics.

It can be seen that track can be an opportunity to get a higher level of education. But from what I've seen, typical students that get into a school they normally wouldn't because of track (like Stanford). They're more likely to switch majors and end up with a degree that doesn't mean as much. The classes can be too hard and they defer to a sociology or general science major. Going to an easier school means you will have more control over what degree you get.

If you're already a good student, then you can go to a school like Oregon, get good grades like Jordan Hassay, and then have the option to go to Grad school elsewhere down the road.

While this is a very good post, I'm continued to be amazed at how after four years in the spotlight at Oregon, along with her illustrious high school career, that people still can not spell Jordan Hasay's last name correctly.

The OP's view of the Oregon track program is indeed skewed.

The last time the men won a team title was 84 -- and that was a fluke because J. Cruz showed up with is own coach and ran for a couple of years. The women's team last won in 85.

Oregon doesn't always get the best recruits, they've lost lots of athletes they would like to have gotten.

There are tons of factors as to why Oregon has a hard time winning team titles.

Some of it is recruiting. Some of it is lack of facilities. Obviously Hayward is great for outdoors.

The indoor training facility is tiny, and really only fit for short sprinting and jumps. (This is the reason Lananna is working on a proposal to build an indoor facility, and re-vamp Hayward Field.

Many etc.s

The goal of the Lame Ducks was only to have Oregon bring back it's mid and distance running heritage.

Before Prefontaine, Oregon was better known for milers.

Again, you're not looking at it from a high level enough view.

The only schools that have been able to consistently dominate in the 5/10 are schools that recruit often older foreign runners.

How many high school kids are "no brainers" in the 5 and 10k???

It is a lot easier to recruit 800/1500 guys and have them be successful. Just look over the years, there have been tons of successful foreign 5/10k/XC guys in the NCAA.

Fewer imports in the 800/1500.

By and large Oregon doesn't recruit foreign athletes. They've never sought them out -- one reason is that it is a state university. Another is tradition. The foreign athletes they have had have almost always "recruited" themselves / contacted the school.

And yes they assess and review the kind of mileage etc., that kids did in high school before signing them.

We're talking about humans here, none of it is an exact science.

Why do you think some schools recruit older foreign runners? Takes some of the risk of it.

There are so many variables here that it's hard to say any one thing makes a team a champion in any year. However, as already stated, there are a few programs that can say they are consistently hanging around the top 5 and that is something to be celebrated, not diminished. Our society likes to think of 2nd place as first loser. Those that do have never organized and managed a group of people in any capacity let alone a sporting program.

First of all, the national meet is not a true team event and therefore the title shouldn't really get the label that it has.

Secondly, the environment; Oregon is overly hyped by the media because of the Nike, Bowerman, Prefontaine, Hayward Field, Track Town USA etc.., etc... It's a unique combination of circumstances related to the sport and maybe deservedly so of it's recognition over any other community in the US when it comes to track and field. However, unfortunately, it does create a false perception that any other meet, host, location etc... is not worthy of the excitement that the media hypes.

Related to environment; Much to their credit, Oregon is having success with sprinters etc... but not to the depth of A&M, LSU, Florida of late. Southern schools will continue to draw more of the top point getters in the majority of events where athletes can double and triple. They simply like their warm environment year-round.

Academics: Each student athlete will find a program that is able to train them for their future and hopefully give them the opportunity to work with a successful program/coach that is compatible with their goals. There are only so many athletes that will score top 8 in each event but yet so many scholarship opportunities to help pay for that education and future career. They can't all go to the same school.

Bottom line is, Duck fans can be proud and celebrate their consistency of what they have built. Like anyone, they will cherrish those special years when they can get the job done in an ever increasingly competitive sport. Don't believe for a minute that A&M, Florida, Arkansas etc... know they have some lucky breaks here and there that often make the biggest differences in the end. The formula for putting your program in a position to have a chance consistently is a difficult recipe for many to repeat year after year. That's why they call it a dynasty when they do.

Eh. You are not wrong. But you are rationalizing too much. I've already discounted any expectation that Oregon's distances runners compete head on with East African imports.

But yeah, I agree with you in that I don't think anything needs to be significantly changed in the Oregon program. I just think maybe do a little better or tone down expectations a little.

I think Lanana and Johnson have upgraded the program -- especially the women's team -- but I'm really surprised in one area: the UO men's weakness in 5k/10K.

A Duck makes some good points, but I'm old enough to have watched Salazar, Chapa, McChesney, and Martin, not only compete well with WSU's world class Kenyans, but also defeat them. (See Chapa's 5K NCAA win over Kimwoumbwa.)

Jim Hill was another guy who could battle foreign athletes. Because of age restrictions, today's foreign athletes aren't near the caliber of Rono, Nyambui, Koech, Kimwoubwa, Munyala, etc., yet one UO team defeated a full Kenyan UTEP team for an NCAA X-C title.

UO has done well in the 1,500 and 800 of late -- more power to them -- I'm shocked at how weak they are in the 5K and 10K and especially the steeple, where fairly middling times are winning national titles in all three of those events.

That golden era happened only because of the hoard of talent that was attracted to Oregon in Prefontaine's glow.

Stop and think about it, and imagine the allure Prefontaine created.

It also happened at a time when track and field was more popular etc.

It also happened because that hoard of talent was so large that after the attrition rate...a good group was still there.

But there was a horrible price. Most of those guys did not have happy endings to their running careers. That's been mentioned in various threads over the years. Both Alberto's success and burnout being the most emblematic.

Oregon did not recruit runners for the steeple chase. The tradition was to make everyone do hurdle drills at the start of the season and see if anyone was a natural at it. Or could survive it.

As for recruiting and coaching 5/10k runners out of USA high schools -- there is a myriad of other factors involved. The most important one is that it is incredibly difficult to predict which high school 18 year old is going to convert and successfully transition to elite status at the 5/10k.

It is not as easy saying "I want an elite group of XC/5k/10k guys and then recruiting them." That great 3200 guy in high school, may be better off as a 1500 guy. Or, he may be close to maxed out. Or, he may get injured a lot in college because of the increased work load. Etc. Etc. Etc.

No USA coach has really been able to sustain a peak like the "Salazar era" at Oregon (with USA born high schoolers).

To paraphrase Tommy Lasorda "it's not that f*cking easy."

As far as team titles? Please, that is not going to happen unless all the stars align perfectly at Oregon. It almost happened with Eaton, Rupp, Wheating et. al., but Biwott had and off day.

I've never really expected Oregon to win team outdoor titles...it has only happened once in something close to the modern era, if you can call 1984 modern, and again, we had an accidental import who was one of the all time studs in the mid distances.

Again, there is a reason that Vin has been okayed and tasked to look into getting an indoor facility done.

Oregon's indoor practice facility dates to 1977, is small, and is under the West Stands at Hayward. Getting English Garner was a fluke and a gift.

For Oregon to win titles on 12.x scholarships, they have to be able to attract sprinters and jumpers more consistently, and to do that, they need indoor facilities.

What?!!? Oregon doesn't have a 200m indoor track?!? the heck is wrong with them.

Call me a hater but I'm really quite sick of U of O track and field an how American athletics/fans/television commentators have begun to worship these kids. I mean come on, it;s the NCAA championships and all we hear is, "And can he score points for the Oregon contingent," and "Lets check to see how the Lady Ducks are stacking up point wise," blah blah blah. Did either team win the team championship. No. Boom. Hey Dwight and the other "very intelligent 'Historic' Hayward Field fans," there are other awesome runners out there...

Clearly Oregon has found a way to be more consistently successful on the women's side and yes that has to be because of the sprinters they have. This is made easier by the increase in available scholarships in women's track and field. They can put the same 10 into high school distance runners that it appears they do on the men's side and still have 8 left over for other event areas, not the 2.6 they have left over on the men's side.

Of those 10 scholarships how many scored at the NCAA meet?

1 in the 1500, 1st

1 in the 800, 1st

1 in 10k, 6th

23 Points

Points from the rest of the team:

The 4x4 was 3rd

Javelin 3rd

Hammer 4th

110 Hurdles 5th

21 Points

When you look at this it may make you think that they have more than just 2.6 scholarships in non distance runners, which is possible but I bet none of those guys are near a full scholarship. Regardless if they have 3-5, no way its more than 5, all the scholarships they have in America's top high school distance runners is seemingly not living up to the general expectation.

You would assume they could get 2 guys in both of the mid-d finals and should at least be able to get a guy to the meet in the 5k and steeplechase. The 6th place showing in the 10k seems about on par with what you would expect.