8th grade girl, sub 5:40 mile, what times are possible?

A girl on my team ran about that as an 8th grader. Her freshman year she ran 5:21 and broke 12 in the 2 mile. Another girl ran 5:50 and the next year she ran 5:18. Tough to tell coach, the girls on my team definitely weren't doing consistent 35 mile weeks.

My experience is that, because girls go through more physiological change in junior high and high school years, you just need to be careful and don't always assume a steady progression with their times. Just continue to build a smart training program, don't over emphasize what times they should be running the next year because it may not work out that way.

I agree with vpathletics.com. Still is middle of season though, so its hard to tell what she will be capable of by end. Also, from what it sounds like she was still adapting to new training when she ran that race, so she may be able to go faster once the extra miles pay off

Our middle school has a seventh grade girl at 5:36, and two eighth grade girls at 5:34 and 5:36, and none of them even have the (middle) school record (5:25 from an eighth grader last year). We've had plenty of girls sub 6 in the past few years, and they all stay under 6 in high school. Some have improved to 5:08 by sophomore year and a bunch are now 5:20ish. Girls change drastically at some point in high school (most of ours put on 10-15 pounds and gained 2-6 inches). 35 miles a week is a lot to be running at that age- focusing on shorter tempo runs and fartleks with lower mileage may make more sense, because developing speed will be essential. Our middle school girls run about 15-20 miles a week with some quality short interval training (4x200, short tempos, etc). Consistency is key though- the most important thing is to keep her injury free so she can keep training. Another thing that's important to keeping her injury-free is proper form; correct what you can about her running mechanics now before injury occurs and before she develops more.

I don't think her changing physically will be much of a problem. Over the summer she grew 2 and a half inches and gained fifteen pounds. . . she looks much more like a sixteen year old rather than a thirteen year old. This was the reason why I felt more inclined to let her run more than the rest of her group (who generally are shorter distance and run 10 to 15 miles a week).

Here is her last running week:

Monday: off

Tuesday: 3 miles EASY in the morning, 5 miles in the evening (2 mile warmup, 6x400 in ~1:22 with 2:30 rest in between, 1 and a half mile cool down)

Wednesday: 5 miles at 7:45 - 8:00 pace

Thursday: 3 miles EASY in the morning, 5 miles in the evening (1 mile warmup, 2 x 1 mile at 6:20 pace, 2 mile cool down)

Friday: 3 miles SLOW (8:25 pace)

Saturday: 5 miles at 7:45 - 8:00 pace

Sunday: 1.5 mile warmup, 1 mile race, half mile relay leg, 3 mile cool down

These are her notes, not mine. What changes should I suggest to her for training to help her improve her times? She wants to be sub 5:30 for the 1600m by august. I just want her to stay healthy for junior year (for recruiting)

You have a few things to consider here:

A) Why is she focusing on a 1600 in August? Seems like you would either focus on the 1500 in summer track or focus on the fall XC season.

B) You shouldn't be too concerned with the JR year because there is so much time in between then, much less wanting to "stay healthy" for JR year. That puts the cart before the horse. Focus on freshman year.

C) What are the goals of the workouts? They seem like paces in no mans land, plus not nearly enough volume to really get much of a training effect from.

I ran about 545 as an 8th grade girl.

9th

5:10 1500

11:15 3000

10th

5:29

11:35

11th

4:52

10:38

12th

4:47

10:03

College

4:37

9:50

16:35 5k

So, you can see I definitely hit a bad spot soph yr...gained my weight, grew my hips, got frustrated. This is inevitable. Luckily my coach was great and never got me worried about slowing down. He wanted long term development and that's what ended up happening. Also I'm over 30 now and still love running...I think that's more important.

I had a similar progression as Yolo. I barely improved my sophmore year. I think I even got slower in XC that year. I had gained about 15 lbs and finally developed. I think that is pretty normal. It takes a while to get used to your new body.

I would guess that this girl could possibly be capable of a sub 5 by senior year. Of course this is assuming that she doesn't quit, get an eating disorder, get injured, or get way too curvy. Which is what pretty much happens to every female runner her age. :)

Little proud back door brag frome me, but also wondering.

7th grade 12 year old daughter, 5'3",100 lbs,always has had muscular legs, and don't think she is going to change that much from here (we will see!)

ZERO running (besides playing)until this year, but high end club swimming sine 6.

this year..800 (2:39),1600 (5:42, broke 16 year old school record)and 12:03 XC (mapped course, only 1.92). Barely running 12 miles a week, but is on an elite team coached by an ex Oregon project Nike athlete.

Make me feel better and tell me that i wil not have to pay for college, becaus ei have my eye on a sweet new car!

My 8th grade daughter runs a 530 outdoor mile (pr) but has improved times dramatically each season/month.

She wins most meets and beats a majority of the boys as well. She is small 5'1" 100# and not muscular but she can endure the "pain" of a mile. She is not great at anything under 400 (about 109 in 4x4 relays). She finished top 5 in Mass state cross country championship but IS NOT the fastest at all outside of individual school meets...but always respectable and in the mix

5:40

Wow all your daughters/athletes are such special snowflakes! What spectacular talent! They are all going straight to D1 NCAA then the Olympics!

I would just keep doing what you're doing. It's way too premature, particularly with girls, to predict her future potential. One only has to look at Mary Cain to see what is possible/not possible. In 1975, when she was 14, Erin Forbes ran a 4:48 mile. She ended up a good college runner at Oregon, but not a world beater.

Eryn Forbes still holds track records at Sunset. Pretty astonishing given all the track success Sunset has had in recent years. I have no doubt her 4:24 1500 record will fall in the next three years though.

Impossible to say, you have to see if/when her body changes with puberty. If the hips stay narrow then the possibility for improvement is great.

I coached a girl that ran 5:47 in 6th grade, 5:11 in 7th grade, 5:01 in 8th grade, 4:55 in 9th grade, done in tenth grade as the body morphed into an adult woman. This was all done on a maximum of 25 mpw.

broken arrow wrote:

Impossible to say, you have to see if/when her body changes with puberty. If the hips stay narrow then the possibility for improvement is great.

I coached a girl that ran 5:47 in 6th grade, 5:11 in 7th grade, 5:01 in 8th grade, 4:55 in 9th grade, done in tenth grade as the body morphed into an adult woman. This was all done on a maximum of 25 mpw.

Why does this only happen to Americans.

wow, she's fast.I honestly don't know how to give advice for young girl runners. My first inclination is to train her hard and see what she does young. she'll likely peak at around 17-18. i.e. See almost every previous female high school phenom who was good early and fizzled out brilliantly. honestly, just gradually get her faster without injury and burn-out. see how motivated she is. talk about the long term, don't talk times, records, etc. Get her to love running and see her progression as the next 5-10 years, not 1-2 seasonsBTW, i ran 5:37 in 8th grade and ran 4:19 by the end of high school, so...um, yeah, the, eh, the pressure is on, buddy.

supercoach wrote:

I'm training a fourteen year old, 8th grade girl who has a 5:39 mile. She has been running track/xc for the last three years, average mileage at about 18 miles per week, although PR was run while adapting to steadily increasing mileage (first week at 35 miles). She is 5'4", 105 lbs, fairly developed. Besides that, she does the bare minimum of strength training, one to two days of fast work, mostly short (5 or 6 by 400 at most). Most mileage is logged at 8:00 pace on treadmill or flat roads. What can I do to get this girl to the next level? What potential does she have for high school? How should I adjust her training? I am generally a sprint coach, so I am a little uneducated on this sort of thing.

Africans don't morph? wrote:

broken arrow wrote:

Impossible to say, you have to see if/when her body changes with puberty. If the hips stay narrow then the possibility for improvement is great.

I coached a girl that ran 5:47 in 6th grade, 5:11 in 7th grade, 5:01 in 8th grade, 4:55 in 9th grade, done in tenth grade as the body morphed into an adult woman. This was all done on a maximum of 25 mpw.

Why does this only happen to Americans.

Because the only African runners you see are professionals.

Also, many Africans live far, far below the poverty line. Diet is a big impact on body shape (overweight girls hit puberty much earlier than slender, active ones). Get a foreign exchange student (they are above the poverty line in Africa) at your high school and you will believe that body morphing does occur.