Kenyan Clarity

Kenyans don't talk on training runs because they are

sucking air. Their training is driven by ego to reach a

physiological state where they can earn money.

The ultimate truth that is clarity is the opposite of this

board, ego driven hard running, or competitive exchange

with others. You know it, I know it, yet we are still here,

playing these games.

Clarity begins when you watch your mind all day.

Looking elsewhere is a glimpse into the fog.

Legalizit your right about not being able to listen to two conversations at once. I understand what your saying about listening to how your feet address the ground when running. Maybe more injuries would be controlled or stopped if folks would stop pounding into the earth.

Kind of lame bumping my own thread, and not to discount the posts from "fredo" and "Mr Jozast" but I really wanted input on this from among others of course, "mzungu" and "randymayes"

Sorry Legalizit, but I heartily disagree on this one.

I used to run by myself virtually everyday, and I would have a very hard time staying healthy, and running solid miles. Sometimes I would talk myself INTO injuries because I was so bored.

Now, when I run with others I DO like to have times, for 1/2 hour even, where nothing is said, and I can just relax. But at the same time, my body just doesn't say enough interesting stuff to me that I can listen to it for 1-1.5 hours a day.

I mean, think about it. If anyone ever tried to have an hour long conversation with you about your body, you'd probably punch them out of boredom after 5 minutes.

Sorry, legal. I know what you are talking about. The point

in a long run when the mind shuts down, and there's just

silence. Are you running 17 to 20 straight every day?

Some traditions describe the mind as a cage full of

monkeys. Its very peaceful when it quiets. I forgot about

that because I don't run long enough anymore.

I beat GM Valerij Popov once in a chess game as a schoolboy :). However, the time control was only 2/5.

Legalizit- Great question

i just asked a couple of Kenyan runners your question and they without hesitation responded- because it is a serious business to them.

It not like the US where we have a lot of joggers. The Kenyans that are training are serious and focused on their next race. It is their job. Winning $300 to them is like $3000 to an American. They do not pay taxes and receive free schooling for their kids. Even public school is about $500 per year.

In psychological terms I'm sure everyone can relate to the anology of one of your best subjects in school. Before the final exam you did all the work needed to feel confident. You could clear your mind several days before the final. In general terms everyone at the top of their game is focused and intense. It is hard to compete with someone who is harder working and more focused, sometimes even if they are less talented.

On the lighter side, I'm not sure they could talk if they wanted to at 80-90% of max heart rate. Sometimes they converse on the warm up and cool down. I have much more to say but will save it for publication.

I met Mzungu at Crazy Eights and am also curious how he responds. He was with Patrick Nithwa, the guy who left Komen standing still with 400m to go.I don't think Komen was focused at that race.

Randy,

If you have "a lot" more to say but are waiting for publication, maybe you could just say a little bit. How long until you publish your studies?

I'm flattered that your interested in my work. Without giving details, I will give you a general overview. Social sciences are not a unified field i.e. there are different theories and ideas on how to study people, especially in psychology. Individual vs. group ideas(personality and culture), objectivity, the ability to quantify your results are some of the issues that seperate sujective/opinions from quality studies. I am not studying individuals, but a sub-culture and determining what they think and what makes them a unique sub-culture within their culture. Language, personality, initiation, their place in society, understanding their psychology and philosophy etc. Margaret Mead's and Freud's methods have been severely criticized within the profession. The current evolving field is named psychological anthropology. Fortunately one of the most respected people in the field is here at Duke. I pretty much have my manuscript done and having my peer review on the finished chapters in different disciplines. I would guess 4-6 months.

Originally Kalenjin males herded cows. Faster runners

could hunt strays, steal other's cattle, become prosperous,

purchase more wives, and leave more genetic material in

the population. How does a psychology and philosophy evolve

from that?

American and Mexican aboriginal peoples have running

centred cultures that evolved in mountainous areas. Why

have they not dominated to the extent that Kenyans have?

b/c the aboriginal peoples were completely dominated and almost literally wiped out by the europeans. now they have been thoroughly and completely "westernized," sucks for them.

K. " The space that thought creates is measurable and so

is limited; cultures and religions are its product" and

"the transformation of what is takes place only when there

is no separation, no time, between the seer and the seen."

Clarity begins by observing your own mind, and proceeds

by seeing through one's culture and its conditioning.

A Kenyan is just as stuck as a North American.

"This is contrasted, as Weldon has plainly stated about his leisure runs with Robert, by the average American training run where much talking goes on in the group during relaxed training runs. Talking isn't so bad, but how many of us can perfectly follow two simultaneous conversations? The one of course being you talking to your training partner, the other one that is not so obvious, is your body trying in vain to talk to you. Which one are you really paying attention to? If it's true that the Kenyans don't talk as often on training runs, I believe it's because they are carrying on another conversation within themselves, one where words have no place. Is it possible their time spent running are moments of clarity?"

Since a well trained runner can carry on a conversation at sub 5 minute mile pace, I fail to see your point. All one needs an an attention span eh?

I hear that Kenyans also do not walk and chew gum at the same time. It intereferes with their walking or vice versa.

Hodgie san- The Kenyans are not talking when training and taking all the prize money. Maybe you should learn from them. What is your point. Do you also advise Michael Jordan on how to play basketball? Training is to prepare you for racing. They do not give out money and prizes for training. Pro vs. amateur. The Kenyans chew the gum when they get back home from the race on the way to the bank to deposit their paychecks.

Fred- Their initiation and societal structure made them emotionally and mentally prepared to steal cattle and women, and to be warriors. John Manners has written about this and I am expanding on it.The other group you mentioned must have a less effective mental/emotional system forming their collective personalities.

interesting thread so far. i'll try to post my real thoughts on the matter once i actually get a chance to think about it. in the meantime, i'll share with everyone a link to

http://www.time-to-run.com/kenya/travels/beep.htm

i'm doing a little consulting work this summer for elite sports, and i'm going to be doing some writing about my experiences while living with the kenyans.

i also solicit your feedback on the column. i've never tried writing for an audience who wasn't giving me a grade, so please feel free to let me know how i'm doing.

otherwise, have fun debating why the kenyans are so fast, but remember that one reason is probably because they're out training while you're reading this - or they're sitting downstairs watching wrestling, bull riding, or BET - but those details will show up later on that other site.

also, randy & legalizit - shoot me an e-mail as i'd like to bounce some thoughts off both of you.

mzungu

Not all kenyans treat it as serious buisness. In fact some are pretty easy going in training. The kenyan that was on our team last year was very lazy. Also kenyans are sometimes full of sh*t about there training. They will tell you bullsh*t about how many 1000's and latter workouts and blah blah blah. Then they come out and die on a 5:20 9 mile run. They tell your they ran 29:50 and 14:20 and come out there first cross meet of the year and barely break 30....for 8k! Kenyans there are good ones and some real pussies

obscure- watch my lips I said serious. What does a 29:50 runner have to do with professional running?

RandyMayes...

You do know who Hodgie-Son is right? I would think he would know a thing or two about elite training.

Who'sOnSecond?

randymayes said. "Maybe you should learn from them. What is your point. Do you also advise Michael Jordan on how to play basketball?"

That's exactly why we listen to Hodgiesan and disregard your rambling bullshit! Hodgiesan has forgotten more about running than you will ever read.