Help HS 800m girl

If your PR is 2:42 and you're hitting the bell in 1:13 then you're fading hard on the last lap. Try slowing down the first lap and running more evenly.

Do you have a training log of some sort you could post to give us a wider grasp of the scenario?

If you can run 67 for the 400m but only 2:40's for the 800m you probably have a lack of aerobic power. The fact that the only training you've shared with us is a fast track workout is saying something. My hunch is that you do not run very high mileage or do lots of long tempo work. That is where you should be focusing.

Thanks for the replies!

On Mondays we typically do long runs ~30 mins or 8-12 200m repeats. Tuesdays are usually more 200ms. Wednesdays may be like 2 600s and a 300m all out with full recovery. Thursday is a tempo run and a few 150-200m easy repeats 34-37 secs, and Friday is pre-meet, so about 10 100m strides. Saturday is usually a meet day, so usually an 800m and a 400m or two 800m for me. I feel like my coach isn't training us hard enough, but I don't want to say anything. On Saturday after the meet, I may go to the gym or take another short tempo run or a 30 min fartlek (9x2 min jog, 1 min jog). Sunday I usually do a long run around 4.8 miles (about 40 mins for me) or ellipitical for 40 mins if I want to save my shins. Sometimes after a 200m workout or a fast 600-300m workout, I go and elliptical for about 20-30 mins because I feel like I need to get into better shape and the season is ending so fast, even though when I asked my coach if I should elliptical afterwards, he did not like the idea.

I feel like I might need to get in harder workouts on the weekends. What are some examples of hard long tempo runs I could do? Is it a good idea to do two running workouts a day? I'm really desperate to improve my times-anything that might help (killer workouts, two-a-day workouts?) is appreciated!

Your training is archaic. Too much speed work on too many days and not enough distance work.

It's too late for this season. I agree with the poster who recommend you go out slower. 80 seconds is fine. You'll run faster just by going out slower. As tout races get faster thn you can go out faster. But earn it. 73 makes sense when you can run 2:25-2:30.

In the off season, this summer, run easy miles. Run cross country next fall but keep running miles. Don't train harder. Train smarter,

In building up miles do it gradually. Add 1-2 miles a week. Try to get to 40 mpw during the summer and into next fall. Make sure your shoes are good and not worn out as you build.

Yes to A hunch. Your coach should have been able to figure this one out. Instead of 200s, he should be giving you 400 repeats. (Maybe the squad is predominately sprinters.) You might do that on weekends instead of long runs. Take whatever minimal recovery time you need between 400s, walking. These will improve your aerobic base, which must be weak. Try 400s at 75 seconds and adjust if necessary. Cannot tell you how many 400s. You might start these on the low side: 4-6, and work up from there. Your coach is right on ellipticals. They are not worth the time and effort. No "killer workouts" unless you consider 400s in that way, which you should not. There are no overnight remedies, and you will have to persevere. No two-a-days now. Best wishes.

So it's too late to improve for this season? I guess that was kind of my question all along-is there any hope for me to run a 2:25 this season. I was kinda hoping someone would tell me some hard workouts that would miraculously improve my time in a few weeks. I guess miracles just don't happen like that

It's not too late to improve but a bunch of hard workouts won't do it.

You're already in the season. By now the work should have been done.

I'd want to take a look at running form. If you style is power-based, being long stride at low turnover, you will fade harder due to muscle fatique. Just as an example.

Lack of speed is also sometimes simply caused by heel strike running, it puts a ceiling to your speed, for some worse than for others. Same problem though: low turnover, long forceful strides, early fatique.

I don't know much about running, but I like the idea of using 300m interval pace (2-3min rest) as an indicator of 800m average speed.

Also, you're young. Accept that you may simply be one of those girls who has an initial performance peak quite early, and then only as a grown woman can shatter those. A girlfriend of mine ran 2'20 at 15, when nearly overtraining. Now 23, she's PB'd all distances apart from 800m, but will certainly do a 2'17 sooner or later. She also refined her technique, mostly by doing a bit more endurance. Still, 40km a week is typical to big for her. On Letsrun you'll hear insane weekly mileages even for young people. Guess why the US doesn't typically feature in 800m globally, despite all the money, dope and lobbying.

Anyway, back to youngg women. Some hit an early performance peak when their bones are light, pelvis narrow, just typical HS skinny girl build. When becoming an awesome woman as track runners do, they put on 5-10kg, and it can take time to put them to practical use. It's like missiles, worthless when not guided well.

One rule: HS runners who want more than their body is ready for, universally get hurt. As did my friend, she busted her body pretty badly due to her coach coming up with really touch interval. Like 3x400 with 15min rest, race intensity. That's sure to hurt, possibly permanently.

sttife:

This may sound crazy, but there is no magic killer workout that can help your current situation. The most important part of any training program is the rest and recovery part. Most people can only handle 2 hard workouts a week and a meet counts as hard workout. The Wednesday example you gave is a very tough workout. Recovery days after hard workouts or meets are essential. It took me years to understand this and follow it.

Again, this sounds crazy but you might run your long run a little slower. I'm 58 years old, I run the 400 about the same as you, the 800 a little faster than you but I go much slower than you on a 30 minute, 40 minute, or longer run. You ran a hard meet on Saturday so the idea of Sunday's run is to recover from the hard workout and get some aerobic distance work. When I say slow down, I mean to 9 minute, 10 minute mile pace. This will feel too slow at first but recovering from that hard meet the day before is key.

If you are not running a slow mile or two as part of your warmup and the same as part of your cooldown, you can start this week. After that killer Wednesday workout, nothing wrong with 10, 11, even 12 minute mile pace for a mile or more on the grass.

What is your tempo run like?

To the poster who said go out in 80 instead of 73, that is great advice. To the poster who suggested 4-6 400s in 75, no way! This gal says her PR is 2:42 from last year, so 4 x 400 in 81 is about all she could do at this point. Not that she should, because the 2 x 600 plus 300 workout covers the same general area as 4 x 400.

Best of luck with the rest of your season and career!

There's so much wrong with your training, it's hard to know where to start.

1. You shouldn't be doing back to back speed endurance days. Tues and Wed together don't work.

2. Monday a long run OR 200 repeats? How can that work? They're completely different sessions.

3. What do you do in winter? You need aerobic endurance and aerobic power for your 2nd lap. In winter you should be doing say 1km reps. In fact if you've still got a month to go, I'd spend Sunday doing 5 x 1km at about your 5km speed, with about 90 seconds recovery. A few weeks of this on Sundays will at least give you some aerobic strength. That or harder fartlek, like 8 x 2 mins hard 1 min easy.

4. You probably shouldn't be training in the afternoon of a comp day. If anything, an easy 25 min run. No tempos or fartlek.

5. If you can only run a 67 for 400, then you'll struggle to run much under 2.30. Your first lap should be around 73, no faster. You need to improve your speed, though this does seem to be one thing you are working.

no, you're wasting your time if you build up endurance for lap #2. try getting out a little quicker, like maybe 68, so you have a lot more time to successfully run the desired 2nd lap split.

Skater:

I have heard about the high school girl maturing into a womens body issue, but I think I may have already gotten over this bump, as I put on 8lbs in 9th grade (very unsuccessful season) to 108lbs from 100lbs in 8th grade. In 10th grade, I kept the weight of 107lbs, but now I only weigh 100lbs, with a similar diet. I run 4-5 300m repeats in 51-54 secs, 3 mins of rest. In terms of my form, here is a link to some videos of me running last year, I do not have any from this year.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x2u3zdgc9qjwpf5/trGwUmwTkK?m

The first and second video are of me running the 4x800m. In the first video, I appear about 19 secs in, in the black uniform, black hair. The camera kind of follows me so it should be clear. In the second video, I appear almost immediately. The third video does not really show me running, and the 4th shows me running the 4x400.

Karma Police:

The workouts are planned by my coach, so whatever he feels like having us do. I have considered the longer repetitions as an option but didn't do any because no coach has ever given that kind of workout to me so I was unsure if it would be helpful. I will do that on Sundays from now on.

I agree with the speed issue as my main obstacle. I'm not sure how to run any faster though. I have dropped the 200m reps from 33-35 secs to 32-34 secs over the past year. I have always kind of thought that running a 67 for 400m as all out would make it hard to break 2:30 in the 800m, but dont know how to improve speed wise

Do you have any hills available to you in your area? When are your city / district meets?

You're rhythm is all wrong when you run.

You're running way too heavy on your feet, turnover is too slow, and overstriding. It's all linked. Not a bad stride which is a good thing, you can definitely run, but there are a few things going wrong.

You need to run taller, light on your feet, shorter, faster, more relaxed strides. Roll your arms a bit, they're a bit stiff, use them to keep your leg speed up. Hard to show over the internet.

Go and watch the London men's 800 final, and watch any of them. All are running tall, relaxed, light on their feet, fast turnover etc. I realise they're the elite, but that's what you have to aim for, at least in terms of form. Look at their video, look at yours. See if you can work it out. It's tough without someone there helping.

You need to find the right rhythm. That is at least as important as your speed or aerobic training.

I find the best way to achieve this is doing diagonals, over and over and over. Diagonals are at a soccer field, run the diagonal, jog the sideline, run diagonal, jog the baseline. Keep turning left. Diagonals should be at 800/mile speed, jog recovery slower than long run speed.

Alternatively find a grass track, stride out the straights (110m) and jog the bends, it's the same as diagonals really, and less sharp turns.

Total focus on the diagonals is relaxed, crisp running, perfect form the whole time. Get used to running like that in training, and you'll do it in a race.

Karma Police:

The critique on my running form is greatly appreciated!

I always felt like my stride was too short as I'm not a very tall person, so I guess I thought that stretching out my stride would make me faster. Instead, I should shorten my stride, and increase turnover rate? I just watched the London Olympics Men's Finals, and all the men seem to have fast turnovers, but the one's with the longer stride had the extra edge. Should I try to keep the stride length and just increase turnover rate?

About the diagonal strides, could I do this as part of an aerobic workout? Like could I do it on a long run and focus on rhythm/form at 800m/mile pace every other block or something and jog inbetween? On my long runs, I normally try to lengthen my stride so that my turnovers would be less frequent because I thought that was the more efficient way of running, but I guess I should be doing the opposite?

Steve red:

Yes, there is a very large hill in a park that xc runners frequently train on, and there are less steep, neighborhood hills that may last for a block or two.

Meets are typically on Saturdays, though occasionally on Thursdays/Fridays

Bang on assessment A Hunch......Speed is not your problem, Aerobic power and base is....Keeping one key speed/speed endurance session, do a long(ish....depending on what you do now ) tempo run and some Long reps at 1500/3k pace, with recovery in between can still see you improve this season...if you run 67sec 400 then sub 2:40 should be within grasp this season just by cutting the speed sessions (doing less but more :) ), but really whatever you do this season is just a patch up before you can lay the foundations in the off season to allow you to run sub 2:30. ...I'd suggest aiming for a first lap in 1:17 focusing on a strong 3rd 200 and hang on with as relaxed a style as you can (for this season!!...as it will be difficult to have a strong 4th 200 at this stage if you re running the 2nd lap in about 1:30) and I'm sure a sub 2:40 will come this season just off a month of adjusted work. Good luck