Saugus at Arcadia, WOW!

Baxter 4:52 anchor for Simi Valley

Their.

Is Saugus a public school?

The wrong trousers wrote:

Their.

Is Saugus a public school?

Can't look it up on the interwebs, grammer troll?

They lost to a school from a town with a population of 6000 people. How is that good again?

Not to dampen spirits or anything (because having a 'B' team run under 20:45 is pretty darn good), but... having their teams be top-6 in the US this year isn't too impressive in that event, considered it's rarely run (same for things like the Shuttle Hurdles).

Don't get me wrong, I like the event. It just doesn't mean as much to say you're top X in this event when it's so rare.

Also, only their 'A' team makes the meet's All-Time Top Ten list (at #9)

2008 Saugus CA 20:03.73

2006 Saratoga Springs NY 20:22.33

2010 Xavier Prep AZ 20:23.85

2010 Mira Costa CA 20:25.97

2013 Aptos CA 20:30.02

2009 Saugus CA 20:31.56

2013 La Costa Canyon CA 20:35.47

2013 Saugus CA 20:37.19

2009 Dana Hills CA 20:39.14

... and while it is the Arcadia Invite, it also hasn't been that long that they've held the event (2002?), and it has always conflicted with the 4x800 (and maybe sometimes the DMR). Both the 4x800 and DMR lists are quite a bit stronger (9:12.15 being #10 for the 4x800, and the DMR 11:56.97 but will probably lower a bit after this year's races are included)

tl;dr - Congrats to Saugus for continuing to show they have nationally elite depth, with 8 girls that can average 5:10.26. But the Girls 4x1600m fields just aren't too competitive, exemplified by how they got beat by two teams that didn't make it to NXN (though they also finished two spots ahead of one other team that also qualified for NXN and one spot ahead of a team that might have been considered for an at-large spot, but I'm not sure who ran on those teams so they may have been missing runners - they both ran 4x800 teams while Saugus did not).

Saugus didn't run their A team in the invite race, which makes it that much more remarkable. They would have won in 20:20ish with their top squad. I got their splits at:

Seeded:

Ashley Heys (9) 5:13

Darby LaPlant (10) 5:12

Katie Huntington (12) 5:17

Sabrina Janes (10) 5:02

Invitational:

Heidi Hoslet (12) 5:03

Alex Hill (12) 5:15

Abigail Frankian (11) 5:14

Samantha Ortega (10) 5:05

And how could you say it's rarely run? The 4x1600/Mile is run at every relay meet and most big invites around the country, as well at Nike Outdoor Nationals.

And this is the 4x1600, NOT cross country watchout. Qualifying for NXN has nothing to do with this event. This is an entirely different ball game. I was surprised Aptos won though. I was expecting La Costa Canyon, Great Oak and Simi Valley to be battling for the win.

The Girls 4x1600m fields just aren't too competitive, exemplified by how they got beat by two teams that didn't make it to NXN?

Aptos and La Costa Canyon just ran outstanding races, as did Saugus. And to say 20:30's isn't good is an understatement. 20:30's is fantastic. The race would have played out the same way even if the other teams didn't run the 4x800 too because everyone up front had their A teams, with the exception of Saugus. In fact Saugus probably would have won with their best team in.

The Animal Within wrote:

They lost to a school from a town with a population of 6000 people. How is that good again?

All you need is 4 people. Your city's population is irrelevant

Of course population matters you dolt.

It's too bad Grosse Pointe South didn't run this race. The Meier twins are easily capable of 4:45 a piece. I feel like they could shatter the National record pretty handily.

Yes, Saugus is a public school with a great coach! Since he started coaching, their girls have won 7 straight California cross-country titles. Before he arrived, they weren't even good in their league.

Grammer Troll wrote:

The wrong trousers wrote:

Their.

Is Saugus a public school?

Can't look it up on the interwebs, grammer troll?

Saugus would not have won. Aptos has two girls sub 4:50 RIGHT NOW. They would not have won this race.

Grammer Troll wrote:

The wrong trousers wrote:

Their.

Is Saugus a public school?

Can't look it up on the interwebs, grammer troll?

Saugus is a public D2 school.

Too bad it takes more than two to win a 4x1600m relay. Hence the four part.

Saugus would have definitely won with their anchor from the seeded race in the invitational section. Saugus' slowest in the invite was 5:15. The anchor ran 5:02 in the seeded race. That's a 13 second difference. With her in the invite, Saugus would have secured the win halfway through the second leg for sure.

If I had a team entered in a 4x1600, I'd rather have three girls sub 5:04 than two girls sub 4:50. Besides the two sub 4:50 runners from Aptos were no where near their bests last night.

I'm stunned no team has gone sub-20:00 in this event. These days with so many sub-5:00 girls, and some in the 4:40 range, it seems like someone could do it.

Actually Kelsie Schwartz from Grosse Pointe South has run a 4:59 1600 and Ersula Farrow has a 4:56 PR... So tell me that it takes two when there clearly are 4 runners on that group that have run sub 5 for the 1,600. They could smash the national record.

Aptos has 4:42, 4:49 and two others sub 5:10. Aptos ran down to the competition as most relays do. My point being Saugus' A team would not have won and would not have beat the defending state champ in a sprint.

Nice try though.

(this whole post isn't directed towards you, 'Great Oak', I just don't want to post multiple times responding to everyone)

How can I say it's rarely run? Becuse it IS rarely run.

What, about a dozen meets run it? Mostly in California? And only two or so of those meets, besides Arcadia, has been held so far this year?

And yes, this isn't cross country, but good cross country runners are (in general) good distance runners, especially when you're talking about program depth - we're talking about teams running 4/8 girls for a mile. Certainly not exactly the same as cross country, but you'll have to have at least 4 good distance runners to be able to compete well at an event like this - If you don't have 4 good distance runners, you're not making it to NXN. And I can't think of a better way to compare how good teams are, this early in the season, through 4+ distance runners than mentioning how strong their cross country team was. Not all good cross country runners are good distance 1600m runners on the track, but in general they are (because the events, while not identical, are similar enough - they are distance events). If we were talking about something in May, I wouldn't be referring to XC nearly as much because kids would have actually had multiple chances to run fast times on the track.

I agree that Aptos and La Costa Canyon ran outstanding races, and so did Saugus. To repeat, congrats to Saugus for continuing to show they have nationally elite depth, with 8 girls that can average 5:10.26. To review my point: their top team, while good, didn't run an All-Time type performance, and saying that a team is in the top X in the nation so far at a rarely run event doesn't really say much about the performance.

You really don't think other teams might have run better if they didn't also run the 4x800? and had everyone in the race? 800 runners can often (though not always) make good milers, if you didn't know... and in case you don't get it, splitting your top 6 athletes into TWO races (or more, with the SMR's included) isn't going to be as good as putting your top 4 athletes into ONE race. Especially if you don't have dozens of national caliber athletes to work with.

Yes, of course population does matter: The best 4 athletes out of 2,000 people are, in general, going to be better than the best 4 athletes out of 20 people. Plus, having more teammates means more training partners, etc. ... that's why smaller schools don't often do as well in team sports as bigger schools (e.g., in California, most of the best teams and runners often come from Division 1/2/3 rather than Division 4/5)

Lack of sub-20's: It's early enough in the season, and doesn't include many of the top programs outside of CA/WA/NV/AZ/UT, so it's not all that surpising that there hasn't been a sub-20 yet (though I do agree there have been teams capable of it under the right circumstances). I think the average winner could probably be something like 20:15-20:20 though if more of the top California programs started loading up on it, with occassional sub-20:10's.

Back to my point -

There are programs out there who could probably run 19:40's or faster (e.g. GPS, FM ... GPS's indoor season bests this year adds up to 19:30.36 and their PR's 19:16.64, for example). And also others that could have 'B' teams sub-20:50, especially if it isn't their #5-8 runners. Not many, but they are out there. A US Top-5 type program like Saugus managing it shouldn't surprise anyone.

So, once again: kudos to Saugus for showing they have nationally elite depth. I knew you could do it, and I'm sure there are others out there that felt the same way. Keep up the good work.