I am very confident that I can run at least 4:17 for the 1600 this year, and I assume this would make me one of the better recruits at schools like brown, dartmouth, harvard, yale or upenn. How much would this help me get in? I have a pretty solid gpa and SAT score (3.8 this year, but 3.5 cumulative, and above 2000), but definitely not ivy league caliber. Do I have a shot?
ps. I'm pretty sure that i'll be able to get 4.1-4.2 next year because i'm taking alot of AP's
4:20 milers are not that unusual. Get it down to 4:15 (1M, not 1600) and you'll have a better chance.
What kind of SAT scores would you need to match up with a 4:15 to get in?
4:15 will get you recruited at every ivy.. Couple it with >2000 SAT score and you're (almost) definitely in everywhere.
Some of the schools with easier standards you'll be fine with >1800. I'm not an expert on all of the schools, but I know that traditionally Yale has been a tiny bit stricter on scores for recruited athletes. Harvard (surprisingly) is not as selective. Certain schools at certain institutions (wharton at penn, for example) might have slightly higher 'required' score, but again, >2000 and you're golden
One other point... If you're a 4:20 miler with a 2000 SAT score, you might want to consider prioritizing running over re-taking the SAT, since a 2100 won't raise your chances of admission very much, but running even 3 seconds faster raises your chances of recruitment a ton. And even if you're pretty low down on the coaches list, >2000 is very solid for most athletes at ivy league schools and should be more than enough.
You will be surprised how much interest there will be (even in the Ivy L).
It won't get you in 'no questions asked. ' but it will give you an edge over a whole group that have better grades but offer nothing else in athletics.
I've been shocked at how many Ivy-bound kids have been on our All-state teams the last few seasons. Columbia is very big in this area for some reason.
I know a fairly dumb girl who only had like an 1800 on her SAT but she was a national level heptathlete and she now attends Dartmouth, so it is definitely a possibility.
Is 1600 your only event?
You may be underestimating the recruiting power of many of the Ivy schools. Even an academic school like Harvard has pulled in many Foot Locker finalists, sub 9 3200 guys and sub 4:10 milers in recent years. Most of the milers are also good xc guys and are also strong 3200 guys. Or maybe you are mid distance? 800 time?
I'm not saying they won't look at you with a 4:17 but that certainly won't make you a top recruit. You aren't going to score points for them. With a 3.5 gpa and 2000 SAT you aren't raising the academic index for the team either. I guess it depends on the year but if you aren't strong in some other events, I don't think you are assured a spot. Just my opinion.
Depends on the sport/school
from what I know, most coaches have a (very unofficial) amount of 'borderline' or 'below borderline' guys they can squeeze through admissions per year. It really depends on the school/sport. Work with as many coaches as you can, and if one needs a miler to round out his lineup he might use his 'pass' on you.
Also, have fun with 'mystery' financial aid (ivy leagues can't give sports scholarships) and work study 'jobs' you don't actually have to work.
course wrote:
Is 1600 your only event?
You may be underestimating the recruiting power of many of the Ivy schools. Even an academic school like Harvard has pulled in many Foot Locker finalists, sub 9 3200 guys and sub 4:10 milers in recent years. Most of the milers are also good xc guys and are also strong 3200 guys. Or maybe you are mid distance? 800 time?
I'm not saying they won't look at you with a 4:17 but that certainly won't make you a top recruit. You aren't going to score points for them. With a 3.5 gpa and 2000 SAT you aren't raising the academic index for the team either. I guess it depends on the year but if you aren't strong in some other events, I don't think you are assured a spot. Just my opinion.
This.
I've coached in the Ivy League. Even after that last several years of top national recruits, a lot of folks don't seem to understand that caliber of kids who are going Ivy. A 1600 guy would need to be much closer to/under 4:10 to make the top of most coaches' wish list.
A 4:17 would still garner a coach's recommendation, which might help with admission, but at most or all Ivies would not garner a *so-called* auto-admit slot.
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Meanwhile, another poster said this:
"Also, have fun with 'mystery' financial aid (ivy leagues can't give sports scholarships) and work study 'jobs' you don't actually have to work."
The Ivies don't go this route. Trust me, I'm a cynical as anyone, but Ivy financial aid--for ALL students--is so good now that this kind of gaming the system is simply unnecessary.
Very few people who have posted on this thread so far know what they are talking about. Each coach gets a few kids who will have very good chances in admission (these kids would probably need above 3.3 and 1800). 4:17 would most likely get you on this list, if you ran it in the outdoor junior season. The threshold for most ivy coaches is 9:20, 1:55-1:54, and 4:17-4:18
Ivy alum wrote:
Very few people who have posted on this thread so far know what they are talking about. Each coach gets a few kids who will have very good chances in admission (these kids would probably need above 3.3 and 1800). 4:17 would most likely get you on this list, if you ran it in the outdoor junior season. The threshold for most ivy coaches is 9:20, 1:55-1:54, and 4:17-4:18
You are all missing the fact that it also depends on who the other recruits are in a given year. For example, if a coach is already trying to "push in" a 4:10 borderline kid, they probably won't bother doing the same for a 4:17 kid. Also, if the school is already getting several sub-4:20 kids with stellar academics, the coach would probably save his/her influence in admissions on other event areas.
Similarly, if a school is really hurting in a particular area, they might work harder to get in a borderline academic applicant. Unfortunately, the distances tend to be over-represented in both the number of guys who want to run in college and the quality of their academic credentials.
Ivy alum wrote:
Very few people who have posted on this thread so far know what they are talking about. Each coach gets a few kids who will have very good chances in admission (these kids would probably need above 3.3 and 1800). 4:17 would most likely get you on this list, if you ran it in the outdoor junior season. The threshold for most ivy coaches is 9:20, 1:55-1:54, and 4:17-4:18
Well, I also ran in the Ivy League and was simply trying to give the OP a realistic assessment. His question was prefaced on the assumption that he might be 'one of their top recruits.'
According to Milesplit, there were 115 juniors last year in the USA who ran 4:17 or faster for the 1600. So, while 4:17 is certainly a very good time and most of these guys will not apply to Ivys, it is not a blow your socks off sort of time that is going to make a coach say 'I want this guy no matter what.'
In addition, some of the colleges look overseas for talent - to give an example, Harvard has brought on a couple of very fast British distance guys in the past few years, and another of their distance guys is Canadian.
My point was that it is certainly a very good time, but unless the OP has some similar times in other events - either 800 for mid - d or 3200 and cross for distance, the 4:17 might not buy him 'top recruit' status. His academics are not stellar and there are a lot of very very good distance runners out there who are also very very good students. Some of my distance teammates were 4.0+ and very close to perfect SAT or ACT.
The coaches are also recruiting sprinters, throwers, etc. and they use some of their priority slots for those guys.
While the OP may very well get into most or at least some Ivys with these numbers, he might be wise to also apply to a few other schools. Just my advice, for what it is worth, which is probably not much.
And I agree with the last poster - things change year to year depending on teams' needs.
The OP should certainly apply. My experience was that no coach would give assurance of admission during the recruiting process, but they would give an idea of what grades and test scores they thought you might need to have a good shot at it.
first of all, thanks for all the responses. During my sophomore year, I only really got a chance to run the 1600 when I was at my peak, and my time was 4:25. Just based of my recent workouts and other stuff, I'm pretty confident that I can run a 4:17. I haven't really explored my potential in other events. I would guess that (for me) 4:17 would equate to something around 9:20 and 1:55. My plan is to apply to lots of ivy leagues, and I would be thrilled if I got into one.