Marathon Training: How long should a long run be?

There are lots of theories on handling long runs. You probably won't settle on what's best for you until after you done 2 or 3 of them. Here's what has worked for me. My staple long run is one where I back off the pace so that I've just completed 23 miles by my target marathon time. Then 3-4 weeks before race day I go race pace for 22 miles....and I throw in tons of tempo, at least two 12-15 mile runs at or near race pace during the week for 6-8 weeks. I don't do speed work, but then again my target time is nowhere near 2:20.

loyalbuff wrote:

Then 3-4 weeks before race day I go race pace for 22 miles.

wow

I'm calling BS on that 22 mile MP run too....shit most people can't do 22 miles at race pace on RACE DAY!

As for what the longest training run should be? I think you should concentrate on time not distance for this run. If you plan on running 2:20 race day you should plan to get a few 2:20 or thereabout training runs under your belt.

Most people can't do 22 miles at race pace on race day? Those people need to adjust their goals. You should be able to go race pace for the whole 26.2, right? I stand by my statement. If you've built up a good base over several years, a 22-mile run at race pace followed by a nice 3-week taper is very doable. I'm not saying it's best for everyone. But it helped me break out of a plateau.

whats the point of doing the actual race then, you've already done over 4/5 of it at race pace...

Save it for the race. Running over 20 miles before the target race is a good way to not toe the line on race morning! Get your speed work in at the track. Get about three 20s in at training pace and you should be fine.

I don't break it down that way. For me, the two halves of the race are: (1) the first 20 and (2) the final 10k. The last 4.2 are huge. I've tended to deal with wall symptoms from 22-miles onward. So the idea is to go up to the wall and see how you feel, without having to tear yourself down trying to endure the final 4.2. If I can complete the 22 at race pace a few weeks before and feel like I have something left in the tank, it does wonders for my confidence. But hey, sub-3 is usually my goal. Maybe it's different for the elites.

loyalbuff wrote:

Most people can't do 22 miles at race pace on race day? Those people need to adjust their goals. You should be able to go race pace for the whole 26.2, right? I stand by my statement.

Some people race much better than they train... I could never run 22 miles at my PR marathon pace in a workout, but on the *day* - something special happens when you put on the singlet and strap on the Champion Chip... for me, anyway.

patio: I trained that way for a long time and it got me to the finish line. But I wanted to go under three. After several attempts I tried something different and it worked. Another huge thing was dropping a little bit of weight.

I've never been happy with runs longer than 22mi. Takes too long to recover. I like 18-22 mi runs, neg. split if possible but I make the long runs hard days.

Don't know abt "race pace" b/c I have no idea what that is until after the race, I figure that training defines your race capability, So I try to do the long runs and figure out for that wahta to aim for. Usually the difference ends up abt 30-35 sec/mi.

I have liked to do an 18-mile race b---s to the wall 3 wks before my fall 'thons (if you can't recover in 3 wks, your training is so deficient you wouldnlt be saved by going easier in the tuneup race). That usually ends up being abt 15 sec/mi faster than marathopn pace

just my two cents based on 19 mthns of datagathering

When I was a decent marathoner my longest long runs would be 25 miles. Usually two to three weeks out I would do 25 at my normal training pace... 7:20 to 7:00 pace... but at 8 miles I would drop the hammer and run the last part of my run at my marathon goal pace. I found it that it worked... I also tried to doing the complete distance at a pace just below goal pace... say if I was shooting for 6 minute pace for a marathon I would run 26 at 6:40 pace... I found that worked pretty well too..

loyallbuff,

Don't you think that's what track work will do for you? Gives you the speed. The LSD gives you the endurance.

I've seen many gung ho runners over the years break simply by running too long (or too fast) on the long runs and ending up with stress fractures, tendonitis, ITB problems, etc. IMHO 20 miles seems to be the magic number....unless you're KK!

patio:

Salazar's book would certainly agree with you. His program emphasizes a long slow run combined with tons of track work during the week. I know guys who follow this program and finish ahead of me. The reasoning makes sense. Keep your heart rate down during the long runs teaches your body to burn fat (instead of glycogen) and reduces recovery time for your during-the-week stuff.

Then there's the Pfitzinger approach which is based on tons of miles at or near race pace, runs from 12 to 20+. The idea is to get intimately familiar with the pace. Below is a page that explains it better than I can.

The Salazar approach makes more sense, but Pfitzinger has worked better for me.

I agree with you about Pfitzinger working best for me. His work is the basis for my training, but it has been modified a bit.

I run my long-runs within 30-45 seconds of goal pace, and then push the pace up a bit within the last 4-5 miles.

I also run them for time, rather than distance. I have been advised by a former 2:15 marathoner that once you run past 2:30, you are begging for an injury. I have never gone above 2:30 in training, and have had pretty good luck with it.

patio wrote:

Save it for the race. Running over 20 miles before the target race is a good way to not toe the line on race morning! Get your speed work in at the track. Get about three 20s in at training pace and you should be fine.

That may be what a Hal Higdon or Runner's World would tell a first-timer or someone looking to drop their PR from, say, a 4:00 to a 3:58; but a guy looking to go 2:20 had better being doing more than three 20 milers at training pace. Shorter used to run long runs with the first 10 at training pace followed by the last 10 at race pace (the final 2 to 3 miles were even faster). Khalid does something along those lines finishing, I believe, at 4:30 for the final couple of miles on a long run of 22 miles. However you do break up speed over distance, you've got to do more than three 20 milers at training pace. Give me a break.

A break you shall be given. I've never run a 2:20. I'll shut up.

From the Dr. Rosa method:

Long runs every SIXTH day. 30K, 35K, and 38K in succession throughout about a 12 week period. Pace is progressive. meaning start out rather easily then kick it up a notch each 25% of the run. the final 25% should be at or a couple seconds faster than goal pace (say 5:18-5:20). One of the 30K's about 4 weeks out should be more steady. maybe an "easy" 5k abt 18:00 then about 16:30-16:40 for each of the next five, 5k segments. Good Luck!!!!

How long does it take most of you to recover from a 22 mile run. It has been so long since I haven't incorporated a 20-22 miler every week that I really don't know what fresh legs feel like...plus, I'm younger...I just wanted to see how long it takes most of you to recover from one of these runs. A week? 2 weeks? More?

These are my suggestions:

After a 5-10 minute jog warmup, do

2 hours at 30-45 seconds per mile over marathon race pace

2.5 hours at 60-75 seconds per mile over marathon race pace

3.0 hours at 90-105 seconds per mile over marathon race pace.

You can always do progressive runs that are around 2 hours or fartlek for many miles. Example: run 40 minutes Easy, 40 minutes Moderate, 40 minutes strong. Example, alternate one mile Easy, one mile at close to race pace for many miles, say 18-22 total.

Tinman