Jorge's Contract

Much more

Let's hope it is much more. I don't know much about shoe contracts, but 40K a year is chump change. I just saw an ad in the paper for an administrative assistant for 47K. Salaries are higher these days.

You will be shocked to find that most athletes are in the $20K range plus bonuses. I know of a national champion that has a $20K contract with Nike.

Yes it does vary. I have heard Kennedy had a very nice 6 figure contract, but also there is an American record holder with a 25k contract with bonuses that can be pretty big for USATF wins, and wins on the GP circuit, and records.

I too would be surprised if he got more than that. I would say 20-40 with lots of incentives... time bonuses, place bonuses, etc. How many people outside of die hard runners know who Jorge Torres is? None? I went home for Thanksgiving and hung out with about 10 guys who ran cross with me in high school. None of them ran in college, but they were all pretty into it while in hs. All are big sports fans. I would wager that NONE would know who Jorge Torres is. Nike, Adidas, Asics... they will market someone like Torres to high school runners, which is a huge number of individuals, don't get me wrong, but Torres won't really help them all that much in getting their business. I hate to say it but given the current state of our sport (little if no name recognition amongst the top athletes), its almost like the shoe companies are doing us a favor by sponsoring atheletes. It is up to Torres to really market himself, do camps, and get his name out there. Its a business, people, everything involving money is a business. If Jorge wants money, he has to not only run fast, but market himself like no other. It is NOT the shoe company's job to do that... it is Jorge's. Despite what many people think, Torres' only job is not to run fast... at least if he's interested in making money from doing that!

M

Conto is dead on. An athlete must have name recognition and be able to drive sales if he / she wants to cash in big. Webb gets big money since nearly every high school distance runner knows who he is. Torres? Great talent but, most kids don't know him. If he runs fast and makes the Oly team, then he can make more sponsorship dollars.

(Hint: the 5,000 and 10,000 are not events that raise your visibility.)

What Jorge should do is have Ed travel around as Jorge so that Jorge could get twice the exposure.

Good call.

I don't agree that the 5-10k are not exposure events. I think that the lack of success at the world level has been our problem not the event itself. Geb seems to be doing ok as far as exposure (even before the marathon). I think that development should be the goal and the $$ will follow. Most 5-10k guys largest development takes place between 24-28 yrs old. The dollar amount of a contract should be less important than a situation that will produce continued improvement. I don't think that most 22 year olds can comprehend this. I hope that Jorge and even McCardle understand this. If you are a middle distance guy you need to either be in Palo Alto or a similar training group that other guys can beat your brains out daily. If I am a marathoner I am joining Hansons as the largest improvements seem to be coming from their group. If I am a 5-10k guy I would look to see if I am speed oriented I would join the Farm if I am distance oriented I join Hansons. Both of these programs are year round developmental programs and not just a month here or a month there (like team California) and then move back home. It is also a mistake in most situations to stay in the college setting as the seasons to not coincide with that of the elites. Good luck Jorge but I hope you use your shoe contract to create the best training environment for yourself as that should be the most important.

Why do we care what someone else makes?

Mr. Willy,

I think you are on to something here. Perhaps Jorge & Ed should try and gain sponsorship together as a team, for unless Jorge becomes a world beater, I highly doubt he is worth much in terms of advertising. However, extremely fast twins might hold a particular marketing angle a company could exploit.

Monty

i thought i had heard that goucher's fila contract was 6 figures plus bonuses etc right out of college. i know i coulda heard wrong i guess. so that made me assume that guys like kennedy, meb, abdi, kannouchi, culpepper, lassiter, and others are making at least close to 6 figures... maybe 50k-60k at least for each of them? the better deals up near 70k and 80k? and then with the bonuses (reasonable to assume they'd get a few) it'd be over 100k for sure. torres will be a richer man than i for sure. any truth to that goucher contract???

Somewhere among all these posts was a realistic basis of around 20k. A fact everyone would benefit to understand and this is a quote from another pofessional runner, "when you get down to it, anything you're offered is charity. You don't improve sales and ther is little advertising done with athletes. Also, there is no real basis for who makes what. Hausers make 100k between them while Clint Wells makes zip. I want to say that Fam was making 6k before he won US Champs, now 30k if he is extremely lucky. Williams made 100k, Kennedy makes 100k, and then things start to plummet. How much will Jorge make? Between 12k and 60k and all of it is a complete gift!

It was reported a few years ago (2000, I think the same year as the WC in Canada) in the Ann Arbor News that Paul McMullen had a 3 year $40k per year contract with Saucony.

I'm under the impression that most of these guys don't make a whole hell of a lot of dough. Didn't Johnny Gray work part time for Home Depot? There is another guy that works for Merill Lynch as well. Bottom line is that many of our athletes work as well as run. Nothing is wrong with that, but my motto is if you have to have two jobs to take care of what the first one can't then you're not making enough. Of course there is the question that if the sponsors pay for hotels, flights, entry fees, powerbars and gatorade, insurance and etc. If that's not included in the contract, then these guys really don't make that much.

That's probably why many of the Americans hit the roads so much. Because of the prize money and appearance fees.

Too bad it's not like many other countries where they really take care of their athletes, but that's the trade off for living in a "Free Society."

If he doesn't find a year round training group then he will be a 30-50k guy forever. If he finds a training group I say he becomes big time. The real money is in the incentives and those are all built into development/ improvements. IF HE STAYS IN BOULDER HE IS IN TROUBLE. The problem is not Boulder but instead the individual approach rather than year round group development. Find a group and the cash will follow.

I see this is your 2nd post saying that Jorge should leave Boulder if he wants to be successful. In fact you state that "IF HE STAYS IN BOULDER HE IS IN TROUBLE." As far as joining the Farm Team or the Hansons for development, he's already better than the vast majority of those guys! He's got great support where he's at in Boulder with coaching and training mates. While I understand that some people may benefit by leaving their comfortable surroundings to "find themselves" or further their development, I don't know if that's really necessary in every case. Or another way of looking at it - Jorge left Illinois after high school to join a group to improve his development...

I am sorry if I came across wrong. I think that he is fine if he stays in Boulder with his brother if they add four or five others. I think coach Wetmore is fully capable of taking an athlete to their full capabilities. However his loyalties should be with Colorado. Ritz or anyone else that still has college elgibility will not be good training partners as their seasons do not mesh. Goucher has proven to be too injury prone. Culp prefers to go his own way. These are the reasons that I think he needs to go elsewhere. If he can find a half dozen guys focusing on the same schedule as he is he will be better off. Post-Collegiates training with collegiates is a recipe for disaster. I wish him the best but I think we agree that the training environment is more important than the $$. I apologise if I didn't make myself clear. I am in Jorge's corner I think is upside is great.

I've always believed that Americans only relate to two distance races: the mile and the marathon.

That's where the money and exposure are. I also think that you can build heros and heroines with these events. Almost everyone remembers being forced to run a timed mile in gym class hence, they have some reference to how fast a sub 4:00 effort is. (Especially if they only managed 8-10 minutes and it hurt.)

The marathon is very closely tied to Olympic lore and most people are aware of a big one in Boston. Some have even heard of one in New York.

The 5 / 10K is seen as a fun run distance in the U.S.A. That's not a knock on track guys because WE all know the demands of the two events. Geb has benefitted because of his popularity (and heavier media exposure for track) in Europe and Asia. You are right in your opinion about getting involved with a group. Kennedy made a quantum leap in his performance once he started to train with Kim MacDonald's stable of African athletes. That is something Goucher, Williams, and others have failed to do. Their "lone wolf" regimens have led to disappointing results.

I think Torres, McArdle, and Ritz can lead an American renaissance in the marathon. I just hope they don't fritter away their best years (24-30) chasing relatively mediocre track times like our current generation.