And why do you do it?
I do. I first got my permit because, as a gun owner, it makes gun laws much simpler in my state. I carried a few times here and there just to get used to the feel and logistics of it. After the Colorado theater shootings I started carrying full time. I now think every responsible citizen should carry (and be trained to carry!).
And I think everybody should learn The Huckle Buck.
I doubt you understand the complexity and ambiguity of deadly-force and self-defense laws in your state, but you should be aware that it is an affirmative defense. The burden of proof is on you.
You're more likely to shoot some purse snatcher in the back and go to prison than stop a mad gunman at the shopping mall. You're also more likely to aggravate a situation where a gun is being used coercively with no intent to fire, such as a robbery. When a vigilante draws down on a robber, he turns the loss of a few hundred dollars into a gun battle risking the lives of everyone present.
When there's a vigilante present, I wanna know about it so I can get out of the way before the shooting starts. That's why your gun should be visible. If there's nothing wrong with carrying, why don't you carry openly?
Bad Wigins wrote:
I doubt you understand the complexity and ambiguity of deadly-force and self-defense laws in your state, but you should be aware that it is an affirmative defense. The burden of proof is on you.
You're more likely to shoot some purse snatcher in the back and go to prison than stop a mad gunman at the shopping mall. You're also more likely to aggravate a situation where a gun is being used coercively with no intent to fire, such as a robbery. When a vigilante draws down on a robber, he turns the loss of a few hundred dollars into a gun battle risking the lives of everyone present.
When there's a vigilante present, I wanna know about it so I can get out of the way before the shooting starts. That's why your gun should be visible. If there's nothing wrong with carrying, why don't you carry openly?
Many of these concerns are negated by proper training. I would prefer to see it be a requirement for conceal permits. As it stands in my state, anyone of age with a clean record can get a permit.... But that's a different discussion.
I would prefer to carry open, but given public perception of guns, it's probably safer to carry concealed. Especially in the liberal area I live. I'd probably start a panic walking into a Walmart with a pistol out in the open.
lol gun nuts
neanderthal dream wrote:
Especially in the liberal area I live. I'd probably start a panic walking into a Walmart with a pistol out in the open.
So long as it is holstered I see no problem with somebody openly carrying a gun with a permit. As Bad Wigins stated though, you put yourself as well as others in danger by being a vigilante in a lot of everyday situations. And what exactly is "proper training"? I hear this all the time. Does going to training automatically make you some kind of all-knowing gun guru?
This thread makes me so happy and proud to live in a country where guns are illegal.
You guys honestly scare the p!ss out of me.
Well, I don't think my response is the absolute answer to your question, but these are some bullet points off the top of my head that anyone carrying should have ingrained in them:
1) A very good knowledge of when it's appropriate to draw your weapon and, more importantly, when it's not.
2) Gun handling basics should be second nature. Meaning how you hold the gun, where you place your trigger finger, etc.
3) A thorough knowledge of your particular gun. It's safety mechanisms, firing and loading mechanisms, how to clear jams safely, etc. These should be second nature.
4) How to safely carry the gun on your person. Too many idiots just tuck it into their waistband and call it good. Or leave a round in the chamber at all times. The guy who shot his kid recently is a sad example of why that's a bad idea.
5) How to draw the gun, and thorough practice doing so.
6) This might seem obvious, but knowing how to shoot. Not just being a good shot, but knowing under what scenarios actually pulling the trigger is justified.
The list can go on and on, but I think these are the basics.
And I think the "vigilante" idea is a misperception, or should be. Nobody should be carrying a gun with the intent of being a vigilante. It's a tool of self-defense, and I would argue it shouldn't be used in any other scenario by the average citizen.
I guess what I'm really curious about is the situations in which people are taught to draw their weapons. Is it based on whether a group is in danger or only that single person? As you said carrying a gun is for self-defense, so does the training say not to draw when in a group? I would think that doing so puts a group at increased risk with there being two guns instead of one being held by somebody who may not actually have the intent to use it.
I've been giving some thought to purchasing a handgun, but I doubt I would get the concealed carry permit. There just seems to be too much risk associated with actually carrying a gun and having to make those decisions when lives may be at stake, and I could be held responsible in one way or another.
'some bullet points off the top of my head'
Unbelievable
Not everyone should carry the gun. If for no other reason than that most people don't want to carry a gun.
However, I do agree that it would be good for a lot more Americans to learn how to use a gun.
Relax, guys. The armed robber PROBABLY won't kill you.
924-CGV wrote:
This thread makes me so happy and proud to live in a country where guns are illegal.
You mean like the UK where thugs rob the same elderly couple over and over again, and they constantly live in fear even inside their own house?
I have a CCL and bang stick, but I don't CC because A) my clothes won't allow it and B) I don't carry a murse.
Whenever I come across someone carrying a concealed weapon, I punch them in the face
Justin91 wrote:
924-CGV wrote:This thread makes me so happy and proud to live in a country where guns are illegal.
You mean like the UK where thugs rob the same elderly couple over and over again, and they constantly live in fear even inside their own house?
Probably means the UK where the murder rate is 1.2 per 100,000 people (vs. the 4.2 per 100,000 in the USA)
if he openly carried, people like you & me would have an absolute hissyfit, that's why.
Good thing Jovan Belcher's GF wasn't carrying, huh? Could've made that a serious situation & someone might've been hurt..
Bad Wigins wrote:
I doubt you understand the complexity and ambiguity of deadly-force and self-defense laws in your state, but you should be aware that it is an affirmative defense. The burden of proof is on you.
y?
This depends on the state you live in. In Wisconsin, for example, I a criminal case in which self defense is raised the prosecutor must prove the absence of self defense beyond a reasonable doubt.
este guey wrote:
I guess what I'm really curious about is the situations in which people are taught to draw their weapons. Is it based on whether a group is in danger or only that single person? As you said carrying a gun is for self-defense, so does the training say not to draw when in a group? I would think that doing so puts a group at increased risk with there being two guns instead of one being held by somebody who may not actually have the intent to use it.
I've been giving some thought to purchasing a handgun, but I doubt I would get the concealed carry permit. There just seems to be too much risk associated with actually carrying a gun and having to make those decisions when lives may be at stake, and I could be held responsible in one way or another.
Every situation is different, so it's hard to give a definitive answer. All states that allow CCW allow the use of deadly force if you think your life is in imminent danger. Most states allow the use of deadly force if you think the life of someone else is in imminent danger.
I wouldn't open carry because it scares some people. It also lets the bad guys know you are armed, which gives them the opportunity to grab your gun from behind.
I have a CCW and carry whenever I'm outside the house (except when I'm running). A good CCW class teaches you the laws in your state. Carrying a weapon comes with a strong responsibility to know the laws in your state and respond accordingly. It requires a constant alert level for danger that's higher than the sheep who are blissfully unaware of their surroundings.
Carrying also comes with a high responsibility to practice safety at all times. The cardinal rules are treat all firearms as if they are loaded and never point a gun at anything or anyone you don't want to shoot.
In the 10 years I've held the CCW, I've needed a firearm only once. It made carrying on all the other days I didn't need it well worth the hassle.
I am thinking of applying for a permit. I qualify in my state because I have taken a hunter safety course. I've never owned a gun, although I have shot periodically over the years both for hunting and at a range. I would just like to get a permit in case the legislature ever decided to make it mroe restrictive.