sub-17 5k in 6 weeks, sub 3 marathon in 10 weeks

For the purpose of getting ready to run a sub-17:00 5k, this programme should suffice. As for the sub-3:00:00 marathon, you might get there, but the last eight miles are going to hurt.

If you can break 17, sub 3 will be no problem if your running that amount of mileage... Especially if you pace yourself.

Just mix a workout into long runs every other week (I like progression runs and alternation-type workouts). Do them in the latter half of your long run. plan out a simple progression of workouts and cycle through it ~2x's. E.g.

1. 5x (1min @ 5k, 5min @ HM-MP)

2. 5x ( 90s @ 5k, 4:30 @ HM-MP)

3. 5x (2min @ 5k, 4min @ HM-MP)

Do these during a 90min-2hr Run prior to the 5k. Make sure you're recovering from then. After your 5k, start to extend them to 2+ hours, and get more time at MP... Then just try to not get too greedy during the marathon (3hr pace will feel very slow). Aiming for ~1:25-26 split would be good if you end up being a sub 17 runner.

I'm in a similar boat to you (17:25, 36:04, 1:18:57, 3:03:48) though I've put ideas of sub 17 on the back burner for a crack at sub-3:00:00 in February. The long hills are a good idea and though I'm no advocate of putting huge emphasis on the almighty weekly long run - I'd think you'll want to bump up at least one day a week into the 15-16 mile range (or more if it doesn't steal away from the rest of the week). Or like the other poster said - get some easy 2+ hour runs in. Don't worry about the pace on most of those, maybe every other one start knocking the pace down to close to MP-effort in the final 1/3 of the run. You're cutting it close with that half PR (for breaking 3 hours) but if you said you're in far better shape since then I guess you're probably good to go if everything else goes smoothly.

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies. I know I have got to get my long run up, and will be doing that. I will also be adding some interval type pacework into the latter stages of long run, once I get the run up to near the 20 range.

Opiate for the Masses wrote:

I'm in a similar boat to you (17:25, 36:04, 1:18:57, 3:03:48) though I've put ideas of sub 17 on the back burner for a crack at sub-3:00:00 in February.

please tell me that 3:03 came from shooting for 2:50 and blowing up...

Seen a lot of data points lately that seem to indicate being able to crank a half out at good pace is worth exactly jack in the marathon. Makes me less optimistic. Yours might be the most depressing. Really? 36/1:18/3:03 ugh.

Opiate for the Masses wrote:

(17:25, 36:04, 1:18:57, 3:03:48)...

...I'm no advocate of putting huge emphasis on the almighty weekly long run

Do you wonder why your 5k/10k/half marathon are pretty consistent, but your marathon time is way way way weaker?

OP, you need more miles and consistent long runs.

First and foremost I'd ditch one of those short tempos and start at 40 mins at 30k pace and gradually increase that up to 60+ mins at mp.

Then I'd increase your 20 min tempo and slow it down a bit more too.

I'd also mix up your repeat sessions far more than you're doing. One week 1ks, one week miles, one week 2ks one week 3ks, etc. Tack on a few 300-400ms at 3k-5k pace on to the end of those and that should sort out your fast speedwork needs.

I'm moving to a 3 day between threshold work schedule, and yeah, I could drop one of the short tempos for an hour of MP. It'll be good aerobically, and I can at least do it this way for a few weeks, and then if necessary, juice some more speed in the 2-3 weeks before I go for my 5k time.

short tempo

easy 8-10

long hills

easy 8-10

long tempo

easy 8-10

long hills

easy 8-10

1hr MP

easy 8-10

long hills

easy 8-10

long intervals

easy 8-10

long hills

easy 8-10

I'm going to add 5 min to my long hilly session each time until I get to about 16 mi. Then probably alternate the hilly sessions with one of 10-12mi and the other "long" and keep adding 1 mi to the long until I get to 20-22.

Would it be recommended to keep the long runs at moderate intensity as they get longer, or just go easy until I get them up to 20, then add some intensity toward the end?

Chance of Success? wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I know I have got to get my long run up, and will be doing that. I will also be adding some interval type pacework into the latter stages of long run, once I get the run up to near the 20 range.

Opiate for the Masses wrote:

I'm in a similar boat to you (17:25, 36:04, 1:18:57, 3:03:48) though I've put ideas of sub 17 on the back burner for a crack at sub-3:00:00 in February.

please tell me that 3:03 came from shooting for 2:50 and blowing up...

Seen a lot of data points lately that seem to indicate being able to crank a half out at good pace is worth exactly jack in the marathon. Makes me less optimistic. Yours might be the most depressing. Really? 36/1:18/3:03 ugh.

Well... the half I did was a drag race of a course but honestly I think on a flatter course I would've been in the 1:21-1:22 range. Don't be too discouraged - that 3:03 was my first attempt at the marathon, all solo training with a lot of missed workouts and no plan going into it and I played it very conservatively as I was scared to death of running 26.2 miles. I somehow negative split the thing (1:34:xx/1:29:xx) without taking really any fuel until very late in the race (20 miles in). You learn a lot in the first one and adjust for the ones later on. I did a lot of dumb things leading up to and during that first marathon. Now I'm getting in a 16-18 miler and 2 other 13-15 milers every week and feeling far more prepared.

I'd also add that there is so much more that goes into pulling off a good marathon compared to doing so at shorter race distances. Weather, course layout, fuel consumption, illness (5-6 months is a long time to train), injury - all of those things can exacerbate themselves far more into your marathon performance compared to shorter distances. I think there's simply many more chances for things to go wrong. This is why people seem to run better after doing a few of these things - experience.