I just finished a novel (totally fictitious) where the narrator, 50 y.o. male, when in HS in the late 70's, was part of a 4x800m team that broke 8:00. So that's 4 sub-2:00 runners in 1 high school in rural Connecticut. Assume a school population of, say, 1000 kids, to draw from.
I ran the 880 long ago, and there was only 1 guy in the league who ran sub 2 mins, in a larger urban area. So isn't the author's back story pretty far-fetched?
Fast but in no way unheard of. 3 schools in CT did it last year according to my 30 sec internet search. One was 748 one was 750.
Not at all impossible. There are lots of high schools that could have an A team and a B team both run sub 8 in the same race if they wanted to do so.
I think the original poster's question was more related to if it could have been done in the 1970s, not currently.
many teams in the late 70s ran under 8 minutes here in the northeast.
C/M Runner wrote:
I think the original poster's question was more related to if it could have been done in the 1970s, not currently.
I wasn't around in the '70s, but I keep hearing on LR that American distance running is going to hell, so I can only assume that 4X800 teams were faster in the '70s than they are today. Anecdotally, my school had a 7:43 4X800 team in the early '80s, so it's not like fast 4X800s are a new thing.
not that tough wrote:
Anecdotally, my school had a 7:43 4X800 team in the early '80s, so it's not like fast 4X800s are a new thing.
I just checked the records out of curiosity. My school also had a 7:42 team at Penn in 1969. So again, high schoolers have run fast 4X800s for a while.
bauhaus wrote:
I just finished a novel (totally fictitious) where the narrator, 50 y.o. male, when in HS in the late 70's, was part of a 4x800m team that broke 8:00. So that's 4 sub-2:00 runners in 1 high school in rural Connecticut. Assume a school population of, say, 1000 kids, to draw from.
I ran the 880 long ago, and there was only 1 guy in the league who ran sub 2 mins, in a larger urban area. So isn't the author's back story pretty far-fetched?
Not far fetched at all.
A similar sized school in my district the last four years had PR's that added up to:
8:05.58 (2012)
7:55.39 (2011)
8:01.53 (2010)
8:06.36 (2009)
Their enrollment has been between 900-1050 during that time.
C/M Runner wrote:
I think the original poster's question was more related to if it could have been done in the 1970s, not currently.
Of course they could. Heck, my grandma could run a sub 1:55. Of course my grandma was 6'2" and 185.
penn relay 4x800 winners in the 70s. These northeast area teams are not all large schools with inner city kids:
70 Roselle catholic
71 Sewanhaka
72 St Josephs of Buffalo
73 Monsignor Farrell
74 Toms River South 7:50
75 St Josephs of Metuchen 7:48
76 Menchville 7:43
78 Trenton Central 7:49.8
79 Fairmont Heights 7:42.97
From this link:
http://archive.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/TRACK/TFN/1976tfn.htm
The 8th fastest time in Illinois in 1976 for the 2 mile relay was 7:45.0. Pretty darn fast. I'm sure the northeast at the time could bring it too.
Coaches Relays St Johns NYC 7 june 1966
First---Jackson HS 7:35.6yds HSR
Second Boys High 7:35.6
and at the same meet White HSRe Plains HS 4x220 went 1:25.4 yds
So a 8;00 relay in the 1970s was noteworthy but by no means an outlandish time.
My high school held the state record in the 4 x 880 relay, set in 1974, at 7:53. The current state record (4 x 800m) is 7:48.
My senior year, a school in my district had a sub-8 team. But they specialized heavily in the event and lost at pretty much everything else.
The 4x8 is a ridiculous event anyhow. It doesn't belong at any interscholastic track meet. If you have 4 good 800 runners, why double them all in the same event? Double them individually from 400 to 1600 and they can each score points, instead of all four of them chasing the same points. Only an idiot coach puts much effort into winning the 4x8.
If I'm not mistaken, Boys had a 'B' team in that race that ran 7:53. Marc Bloom wrote an excellent article on that race for, I think, Runner magazine. Can anybody provide a link?
Bad Wigins wrote:
Agreed; after further thought, my not-so-good HS track team might have put such a relay together (which wouldn't have included me!), but only by risking points in the mile, 2mile and 440, to get the top guys.
The 4x8 is a ridiculous event anyhow. It doesn't belong at any interscholastic track meet. If you have 4 good 800 runners, why double them all in the same event? Double them individually from 400 to 1600 and they can each score points, instead of all four of them chasing the same points. Only an idiot coach puts much effort into winning the 4x8.
Seeing Penn Relays mentioned, I should have said 4x8 is stupid for any normal meet. For big relay festivals it's great, although confusing if the heats aren't well balanced.
Bad Wigins wrote:
The 4x8 is a ridiculous event anyhow. It doesn't belong at any interscholastic track meet. If you have 4 good 800 runners, why double them all in the same event? Double them individually from 400 to 1600 and they can each score points, instead of all four of them chasing the same points. Only an idiot coach puts much effort into winning the 4x8.
Not necessarily ridiculous. I've been involved in meets with 1-1-1 event limits. In cases like that, a coach would be an idiot to not put 4 good 800 runners in a relay.
2:00 800M guys won't place at invitationals. Put them together and they run faster to a man and score as many as 10 pts. At a state level, 10 pts is huge if you are in the hunt for team placings.
BTW - the 1976 4x880 yard relay was the first year they ever had the event. The Anchor for Thornton ran 1:49.5 880 split and came from 8th or so place to win and towed 11 other schools to incredible times as well.
Bad Wigins wrote:
The 4x8 is a ridiculous event anyhow. It doesn't belong at any interscholastic track meet. If you have 4 good 800 runners, why double them all in the same event? Double them individually from 400 to 1600 and they can each score points, instead of all four of them chasing the same points. Only an idiot coach puts much effort into winning the 4x8.
Many solid 4X800 teams are composed of runners who wouldn't score many individual points anyway. My high school 4X800 team took 3rd at states. We had a 1:54 guy and then the other three guys were all 1:57-1:58 runners. It would have been a long shot for anyone other than the 1:54 guy to score individually in any event. We would have scored fewer point if we hadn't run the relay.
You could show up to our state meet with 4 1:59 guys and have an outside shot at grabbing a point or two in the relay, but none of those guys is going to make it through the prelims in the open 800m. And unless they are much better at another event, they won't be scoring in the 400m or 1600m either. So, long story short, you're wrong. For many teams, it does make sense to focus on the relay instead of trying to score in other events.