Will an American man ever win NCAA XC again?

Attitudes like this ruin our chances at being competetive on the world stage.

You want to watch Americans dominate? Watch D3.

The Kenyans are not at the professional level or they would be racing professionally. I have no problem with forcing American atheletes to compete against tough competition. At the same time, I think coaches who recurit a significant number of foreigners have no basis for gloating in whatever success they may achieve.

3 words: Colton Mirko Goucher!

The Big Winnner wrote:

At the same time, I think coaches who recurit a significant number of foreigners have no basis for gloating in whatever success they may achieve.

Why? So you can go grab an athlete from a foreign country and they will run fantastically no matter what coaching you give them? You people are so dumb.

Didn't Galen Rupp and Josh McDougal win recently? As did Jorge Torres and Adam Goucher and Dathan Ritzenhein? What seems to be the problem?

I don't have a problem with foreigners winning NCAA events. But I think I do take issue with the US universities (many of which are publicly funded) giving scholarships to foreign athletes because I don't really see the payoff in that. Do these athletes stick around after graduation and contribute to our society? I don't really know, but I'd like to.

To be honest, I think public universities should be limited to providing scholarships to in-state students (or at a minimum the proportion of scholarships should reflect the portion of funding to the university so if a large % of students comes from another state then the university could give that % of scholarships to out of state students). I realize that may tip the fairness scale a bit, but I'm sure there's a way to maintain fairness and to be honest I'm not sure it needs to be completely fair. Maybe you could do the same for private universities (% scholarships reflects student body makeup).

xc2012 wrote:

Do these athletes stick around after graduation and contribute to our society? I don't really know, but I'd like to.

What are they going to do, go back to Kenya with their NCAA accolades? Why else would they come to America to go to college? If they wanted to win road race money, they could just come over and do that without participating in the NCAA.

1966 - 1971, AMERICAN

1972 - IRISH

1973 - AMERICAN

1974 - BRITISH

1975 - AMERICAN

1976-77, KENYAN

1978 - AMERICAN

1979 - 1981, AFRICAN

1982 - 1983, ?

1984 - 1988, AMERICAN

1989 - ?

1990 - 1991, AFRICAN

1992 - AMERICAN

1993 - 1997, AFRICAN

1998 - AMERICAN

1999 - AFRICAN

2000 - IRISH

2001 - AFRICAN

2002 - 2003, AMERICAN

2004 - 2005, CANADIAN

2006 - 2008, AMERICAN

2009 - 2012, AFRICAN

Who would you rather see get a scholarships to a publicly funded universities? A Kenyan like Wesley Korir who does a lot of charity work, is extremely humble and worked really hard in his classes or an American like Tyrann Mathieu who has been arrested multiple times for drug infractions?

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

Who would you rather see get a scholarships to a publicly funded universities? A Kenyan like Wesley Korir who does a lot of charity work, is extremely humble and worked really hard in his classes or an American like Tyrann Mathieu who has been arrested multiple times for drug infractions?

I don't think anecdotal evidence is a useful way to assess the statement I made. One could easily find a similar counter argument. What % of foreign student athletes who receive significant scholarships are still living/working in the US 5/10/20 years after their scholarship ends? If you can show that it is in line with the % for American students then I would be alright giving the scholarship to the foreign student. It's not just African student athletes we're talking about. I won't pretend to know the numbers, but I would guess the African countries are not topping the list of foreign scholarships.

Considering the Olympic 10k finals have been

1964 - AMERICAN

1968 - KENYAN

1972 - 1976 - FINN

1980 - AFRICAN

1984 - ITALIAN

1988 - 2008 - AFRICAN

2012 - BRITISH

I'd say Americans are overrepresented in NCAA XC champions.

probably not if left up to schools like Ok State, Fl State, Texas Tech, and Arizonia.

I would like to see US (the U.S.A.) have our own championship, if that's doesn't make us better, oh well....back to the drawing board.

What do publicly funded schools and taxes have to do with this? Do you even know if their scholarship money comes from taxes?

That isn't a condition of attending the university. The coaches are charged with having their teams place as high as possible in the conference and NCAA Championships. They're recruiting the best available talent.

An understatement, I would think. Imagine telling the Sooners' football coach that he could only offer scholarships to Oklahomans, while Red River Rival Texas gets to recruit from the second most populous state in the Union. There are nearly twice as many people in the DFW metro area than there are in all of Oklahoma.

So, are you the same person who started repeated threads like: Will Americans Men/.. ever win a OG (or WC) medal again?

10/10

Stop bitching and start training.

The Big Winnner wrote:

The Kenyans are not at the professional level or they would be racing professionally. I have no problem with forcing American atheletes to compete against tough competition. At the same time, I think coaches who recurit a significant number of foreigners have no basis for gloating in whatever success they may achieve.

I am not arguing for or against the OP, but your assertion that "The Kenyans are not at the professional level or they would be racing professionally" holds no water.

Lalang and Sambu ran 13:07 and 13:13 indoors respectively. These are the first and second fastest indoor times in college history. Sambu ran 27:28 in 2011.

Kithuka beat them both soundly, so while it is not automatic, he should be at or above their level in track. He has already run 13:38 and 28:18.

We can't say why they chose to stay and run this year (and last) at University, but we can say that they certainly are running at a high enough level to currently be a professional.

Levins and Ahmed ran 27:28 and 27:35 and ran in the Olympics this summer, Lalang beat them both last year and this year. It is disingenuous to say that "The Kenyans are not at the professional level or they would be racing professionally."

All your assertions are wrong.

Dennis Reynolds wrote:

Who would you rather see get a scholarships to a publicly funded universities? A Kenyan like Wesley Korir who does a lot of charity work, is extremely humble and worked really hard in his classes or an American like Tyrann Mathieu who has been arrested multiple times for drug infractions?

Are these my only choices?

newname wrote:

It is disingenuous to say that "The Kenyans are not at the professional level or they would be racing professionally."

All your assertions are wrong.

If an American runs 13:07 and 13:13, he'll be able to get a contract to run professionally. Similarly, if Canadian runs 27:28 or 27:35, he'll be able to get some sort of contract.

If a Kenyan runs 13:07 or 13:13, that's a different story. While it's knocking on the door of professional level, and would certainly be good enough to pick up $500 here and there in road races, it wouldn't get them a contract. Runners at that level gain far more value from a college scholarship than they'd make on the roads -- hell, their room and board alone is more valuable than what they'd make as a road whore, even ignoring the vast difference in lifetime earning potential that a college degree represents.