"College running doesn't prepare you to run a fast 1500"

What Myers said is common knowledge. The Sit and Kick running philosophy has ruin an entire generation of American milers.

The US has the most 3:40+ 1500 meter runners in the world. What do they all do after the trials.

I agree. I finished up my eligibility in 2003. I was trained to run a fast 1500, lots of strength work, occasional 5k, XC etc, but found that 90% of the time if I didn't lead the race it wasnt going to be that fast. I was decent but not like I was the best in the country and it was frustrating as hell because I hated sit and kick racing. whats the point in a non-championship meet? The 1500m mentality was incredibly frustrating becuase i wound up with a pr about 3-4 seconds slower than my fitness. I was considering running after college and move up to 5k if i chose to do so, but would that have even changed anything?

I think this is the biggest difference between US milers and the rest of the world. The rest of the world has figured out that the fastest lap does not have to be the last lap. It appears Alan Webb has also figured this out. I would tell young runners to study the racing tactics of Filbert Bayi. Now that man had guts. He was known to take out the mile in 50 flat. Yeah, he died in a lot of races but he won a lot of races too.

It prepared Joe Falcon. Most of these 1500m types just have no balls, and so we can blame their parents, namely their fathers. Obviously their fathers didn't teach them how to race like a man, so they can be the man.

Well, maybe we should distinguish between preparing someone mentally and preparing someone physically. I think the physical preparation is there in many cases but you have to have the mindset to pull it off.

It must have been frustrating.

In the American athletic scene a 3:40+ 1500-meter runner faces an interesting dilemma. A 3:40 may not be fast among the world's elite, but it is a time that only 1 in 2 million Americans are capable of. Last year "13" American's run a 4 minute mile or under. In major league baseball "13" players batted .300. You know just about all those player that batted .300 are millionaires. However, among the 13 Americans that run 4 minutes or under for the mile most of them are not rich.

Maybe there should be an incentive for US 1500 runners to produce faster time. If 1500 meter running in the US was as popular as baseball here is how the financial performance scale would probably look like.

Remember, this is not that far out if you consider A-Rod signed a $200,000 contract with the Yankees.

Mile times and pay scale

4:01 - 4:10 $30,000 (minor leagues)

4:00 - 4:05 $200,000

3:55 - 3:59 $350,000 - $400,000

3:50 - 3:54 $600,000

3:47 - 3:50 $1,500,000

Sub 3:47 $2,000,000

World Record $5,000,000

Bayi would go out in 53-54, not 50 flat. Still, your point is well taken.

Didn't seem to hurt these guys too much. The problem is that Myers is nearly as good as any of these guys were.

ALL TIME COLLEGIATE LIST, 1500 METERS

3:35.30 ....... Sydney Maree' (Vill) 81 3:29

3:35.79 ............ Abdi Bile' (GM) 87 3:30

3:35.84 ............ Joe Falcon (Ar) 88 3:33

................... Brian Hyde (WM) 95

3:36.48 ......... Joaquim Cruz' (Or) 84 3:34

3:36.62 ....... Kevin Sullivan' (Mi) 98 3:31

3:37.01 ..... Eamonn Coghlan' (Vill) 76 3:35

3:37.05 ..... Bryan Berryhill (CoSt) 01 3:35

3:37.23 ....... Seneca Lassiter (Ar) 99 3:33

3:37.26 ...... Wilson Waigwa' (UTEP) 76 3:35

Marks made outside collegiate season:

3:30.56 ...... Bernard Lagat' (WaSt) 99 3:26

3:31.71 ...................... Bile' 87

3:33.05 ......... Marko Koers' (Ill) 96 3:33

3:33.07 ....... Kip Cheruiyot' (MSM) 86

3:33.1 ............... Jim Ryun (Ks) 67

3:33.72 ................... Lassiter 99

3:34.45 ....... Paul McMullen (EnMi) 95 3:33

3:34.54 .......... Peter Rono' (MSM) 89

3:34.80 .................. Sullivan' 98

3:34.95 ......... Steve Holman (Gtn) 92 3:31

Don't list the all time list and say shit like that. I have raced against Myers on a couple of occasions. I have run low 3:40's and he dusted me. I am sure he is capable of running 3:36 if he got the right race.

Just dont be a dumb ^%& and post the all-time list... it is actually sad that 3:37 makes that list. I am sure if there were bigger meets or more invites with rabbits you would have faster college kids. Instead people like Myers get stuck in Big Ten meets splitting through 800m in 2:14.

Face it the NCAA has a lot of coaches (i would think above 80%) who only care about conference and themselves. Gary may be different but when was the last time you had a meet and invited the top ranked guys in the country... NEVER!

And now that the regional system is here for all the whiners... people dont even get a chance to go chase fast times at Stanford, etc.... because they just have to run the pitifully slow 3:50 to make regionals..... so all these programs who dont spend cash wont pay for them to fly out west to run fast!!

Suck it!

list,

so what you're saying is that in the decades and decades of collegiate athletics, during a collegiate race which didn't have rabbits or elites to hoover them along (like lagat and sullivan and lassiter et al had for their marks outside collegiate season), 10 guys have run under 3:37.26. that sure sounds to me like the college system doesn't teach or give the opportunity for people to race fast. thanks for proving my (and rob myers') point.

The point is that the best of the best adapt to post-collegiate time trialing. Maree dropped 6 seconds, Bile 5, Sullivan 5, Lassiter 4, Lagat 4, and Holman 3. What might hold Myers back from this kind of improvement isn't the collegiate system, just that he's not that good! There's a big difference between being a low 3:40s guy and a low 3:30s guy. One gets you to US champs and the other one gets you into Golden League races.

Here's what Rob Myers got at Ohio State in the "evil" collegiate system: a free education, free coaching, free room and board, free travel, free physical therapy and treatment, and the opportunity to compete against the country's best athletes in his age group. In return, he was expected to represent Ohio State in Big Ten and NCAA competitions, not just freelance in whatever time trial races he feels like running. It's a contract, remember, nothing comes for free.

Following the lead of Webb and others, more athletes may forego all or parts of their collegiate careers to turn pro and make their own decisions. More power to them. However, those who choose to remain members of the collegiate system know what they are getting into, reap the benefits, and therefore must deal with the consequences.

so, if you're ridiculously talented (as you imply those athletes on the list are) then you're able to overcome the fact that collegiate athletics don't really prepare you to run fast 1500s. nearly all of those athletes came to the ncaa as fast milers; the fact that they dropped so much time after college (and in races outside of the ncaa) could indicate that, even for these ridiculously talented people, the ncaa doesn't present the opportunities necessary to compete.

and it's nice to know that you're so fatalistic about the problems facing the ncaa. since you've established the costs and benefits of the system i suppose we all should just sit down and shut up and leave the fast miling to the ridiculously talented in the rest of the world. forget about reforming the "contract" and forget that i can't remember the last american developed by the system who went on to compete at the world level. and forget that many of the athletes in the ncaa don't have the option of going pro and are thus stuck with this system. we'll just let the ncaa be as it was. no need to be proactive or even *gasp* discuss what the ncaa could do better.

not to be patronizing, but the NCAA isn't supposed to be in the business of preparing milers for the golden league, but to foster and administer competition among student-athletes. Due to the fact that the US's club system has been destroyed by national shoe company teams, there really is no other option. I know in football & basketball, the NCAA is essentially a minor professional league, but I would hope that track is different.

They should make a NTFL (National Track & Field League). It's like the NBA but for track and field. More people could make a living off their running careers and it would help improve US times.

BillCarr wrote:

not to be patronizing, but the NCAA isn't supposed to be in the business of preparing milers for the golden league, but to foster and administer competition among student-athletes. Due to the fact that the US's club system has been destroyed by national shoe company teams, there really is no other option. I know in football & basketball, the NCAA is essentially a minor professional league, but I would hope that track is different.

most of the other sports are minor professional leagues, too. soccer, softball, baseball, etc. they all seem to do a fine job of developing athletes. i don't see what the big deal about developing athletes to compete beyond their eligibility is.

and is jogging around in 70s and then dropping a 55 really developing competition?

>>"Unfortunately, this is what college running prepares you to do. It doesn't prepare you to run a fast 1,500 meters. It prepares you to run a fast last 400 meters." <<

Dumb quote. YOU must prepare yourself to run a fast 1500, or whatever else you wish to do in life. Only silly, stupid runners would expect some institution to accomplish their goals for them. You want to run a fast 1500? Great. Get as fit as possible and run one. Incidentally, if you drop your PR by 5 seconds you will also improve your ability to win tactical races. Big whoopee.

No one said Rob Myers expected OSU or the NCAA to achieve his goals for him. Anyone who has been around him at all knows he works his ass off and is the type of athlete who'd never place blame on his coach or his school. Media ask questions then print quotes as they see fit often misrepresenting athletes. Give the guy some credit- he's improved consistently and will continue to- I look forward to seeing him race in the future.

i hate the tactical races. i have noticed that the past three years at ncaa's(indoor and outdoor) have produced the same times at 1500. just look at the results. they stay the same. why aren't they getting faster? it's bullshit.

If everyone hates tactical races so much then they should be the ones who go out and push the pace. At NCAA regionals or whatever meet, most of the time you'll know who your competition is and so if you know a guy is one who likes a slow pace and race the last 400, then TAKE IT OUT ON HIM! Race tactics is not rocket science. If you're not in good enough shape to tire the kicker, then thats no one elses fault than your own.

On the other hand, if you believe that every race should be all out, balls to the wall, then maybe you should try to take up sprinting.