Looking to generate discussion/ideas...thx
Looking to generate discussion/ideas...thx
Yes you need to purchase a shakeweight.
I've ranted on this before. Maybe you can use the Search function, or the Google option that it has--look for "arms" and "relax" and "elbow" and "lease," I'd guess.
I remember seeing a video--and have since searched for it, in vain--of Lynn Jennings winning a world xc championship. She was neck and neck with someone else, most likely an Ethiopian, as they hit the homestraight. Then, in that final sprint, there was a wonderful view of the two women, sort of from the side: Jennings was bringing her (relaxed) elbows back almost to shoulder height as she was sprinting; the other was "trying hard," moving her (one-piece) arms around fast. And Jennings just moved away from her on every step, though their stride frequencies were similar. It was uncanny.
Okay, found another cross win (not the one I was thinking of) for Jennings--you have to go to about the 9:08 mark to see what I'm talking about:
Will horrid arm mechanics hinder performance? Probably.
Will amazing arm mechanics improve perfomance? Maybe.
If you are out of the bottom 10% and not in the top 10% I would bet it doesn't matter. Looking at elite level runners shows almost no emperical evidence that one top of arm carry is better than another.
There are more important ways to spend your time if looking to shave a few seconds. There is also a lot to be said for individual variences in mechanics, where someone just may have different mechanics that look "worse" but do just fine for them. As long as you possess enough strength to keep from really tying up and "swimming" to the finish line, you should be alright. I would even say that shoulder mechanics (scapular retraction and such, keeping the lungs open and the shoulders away from the ears) would be more important that straight arm swing.
I have a personal pet peeve against the runners who take 5 pound weights and mimic arm swings with them while standing still. This type of training is inneffective, and flies pretty squarely in the face of the notions of strength increases. The stimulus isn't high enough with such a low weight to over come the fact that you swing your arms sans weights THOUSANDS (170~ steps per minute is 170~ arm swings per minute of running. 60 minute run is 10,200 swings, or 5,100 times per arm) of times during a normal run, let alone a normal running week. What is a few pounds for a few reps going to do?
To each his own, though!
Okay, I checked and if you enter those terms I listed in the Search page's Google option, a *bunch* of my previous rants on the topic show up. Didn't realize I was quite so repetitive. (Those threads also have some other good stuff, btw.)
And sure, sometimes we specifically trained it. We just had people partner up: one person would stand behind the other and hold her/his hands up as "targets," while the person in front would bring her/his relaxed elbows straight back (close to shoulder height) to hit the hands. Our mantra was "relax-back-relax-back-relax-back."
[As always, when learning a new neuromuscular skill you want to work on it early (after a decent warmup, though) in your training session--even if it's a skill you'll be *using* late in a race.
[Similarly, if you're trying to improve someone's free-throw mechanics in basketball, you'd work on it early in a practice, even if it's a skill he's most likely to use in the last minutes of a game.]
Turns out that some people find doing this drill for even a minute very fatiguing--or at least very winding--but as they learn the skill (mostly, as they learn to relax), it becomes no problem. (Actually, we often started with something more like 4x15 seconds.)
lease wrote:
Okay, I checked and if you enter those terms I listed in the Search page's Google option, a *bunch* of my previous rants on the topic show up. Didn't realize I was quite so repetitive. (Those threads also have some other good stuff, btw.)
And sure, sometimes we specifically trained it. We just had people partner up: one person would stand behind the other and hold her/his hands up as "targets," while the person in front would bring her/his relaxed elbows straight back (close to shoulder height) to hit the hands. Our mantra was "relax-back-relax-back-relax-back."
[As always, when learning a new neuromuscular skill you want to work on it early (after a decent warmup, though) in your training session--even if it's a skill you'll be *using* late in a race.
[Similarly, if you're trying to improve someone's free-throw mechanics in basketball, you'd work on it early in a practice, even if it's a skill he's most likely to use in the last minutes of a game.]
Turns out that some people find doing this drill for even a minute very fatiguing--or at least very winding--but as they learn the skill (mostly, as they learn to relax), it becomes no problem. (Actually, we often started with something more like 4x15 seconds.)
I could see this engaging a greater stretch reflex and if cadence was not slowed this would make it easier to get more power/length out of your stride. If the extra back swing sacrafices turnover rate, it would probably hinder/do nothing. I would think range of motion is dependent on tightness of the shoulder girdle and the traps, so a looser more relaxed back would be ideal. I know he's a Crossfitter, but Kelly Starrett of Crossfit San Francisco has a Mobility Workout Of the Day series that is pretty fantastic for showing how to keep loose. The one of traps is my favorite.
Basicly, if you can manage that correctly, awesome!
SCIENCE! wrote:
I could see this engaging a greater stretch reflex and if cadence was not slowed this would make it easier to get more power/length out of your stride. If the extra back swing [sacrifices] turnover rate, it would probably hinder/do nothing. I would think range of motion is dependent on tightness of the shoulder girdle and the traps, so a looser more relaxed back would be ideal. I know he's a Crossfitter, but Kelly Starrett of Crossfit San Francisco has a Mobility Workout Of the Day series that is pretty fantastic for showing how to keep loose. The one of traps is my favorite.
Thanks for the tip! Yes, you're absolutely right: the backward swing of the arm still has to be at the same (sprinting) cadence to be effective.
Over time, we discovered that what hindered some runners in developing this skill was tightness in the chest/frontal shoulder (quite common in distance runners). PNF chest stretching helped a lot with this.
More important is shoulder rotation. If you imagine a line perpendicular to the direction of motion, passing through the body from left to right, the shoulders should be at an angle equal and opposite to the angle of the hips, relative to that line. That is, the shoulder should be as much forward as the hip is back.
Without shoulder rotation, you're mainly just flailing your arms around without much improvement to your biomechanics.
Any thoughts on hand speed velocity?
Random question, cause someone brought it up a week or two ago comparing Africans to non-Africans. Is it plausible that how high or low someone carries their arms related to their center of gravity? Any research on this? It seems Africans carry their arms higher/tighter, which I was thinking was maybe due to their notably higher center of gravity. Contrarily, non-Africans tend to carry their arms lower-- it's as if they tried carrying their arms higher, it would almost 'look funny'. Also, I've always thought that one's arms should be further away from the chest so you can get a full breath and let the diaphragm expand, but then you see the Africans (Chicago most recently for example) and their arms are high and tight. Anyone have thoughts on this?
Velocitator wrote:
Any thoughts on hand speed velocity?
It would be, by definition, the same velocity as your legs... but.. you know... like.... opposite.
As far as tightness of arm carry, I have heard it said that the higher your arms the less weight you're swinging which would make you more efficient over a longer distance. It would also generate less force and for a shorter distance that would be a no-no. The guys at Science of Sport say something to the effect of "Start at 90 degrees of elbow flexion and go from there based on personal preference".
link:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/12/running-economy-part-ii.htmlcurious about arms too wrote:
Random question, cause someone brought it up a week or two ago comparing Africans to non-Africans. Is it plausible that how high or low someone carries their arms related to their center of gravity? Any research on this? It seems Africans carry their arms higher/tighter, which I was thinking was maybe due to their notably higher center of gravity. Contrarily, non-Africans tend to carry their arms lower-- it's as if they tried carrying their arms higher, it would almost 'look funny'. Also, I've always thought that one's arms should be further away from the chest so you can get a full breath and let the diaphragm expand, but then you see the Africans (Chicago most recently for example) and their arms are high and tight. Anyone have thoughts on this?
It's all about balance. The more forward lean the tighter the arm carriage. Otherwise you'll simply fall forward. If you run tall, you can keep your arms low.
There are great runners with all kinds of postures.
Velocitator wrote:
Any thoughts on hand speed velocity?
How about hand velocity. Is there a kind of velocity other than speed velocity?
13 posts on this already?
This is why the Kenyans are beating us.
Just run.
Velocitator wrote:
Any thoughts on hand speed velocity?
epic
The marathon-barrel-roll-floppy-arm swing is a dark and disturbing thing to witness. I want to scream at them to “STOP IT” but I know they can’t help themselves. Since my favorite runner, Turunish, has no arm swing at all, I guess it really does not matter…..
As others have stated…....just run man!
"Alberto's Technique Breakdown" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaOQpCZgSME
Rtype wrote:
As others have stated…....just run man!
Would anyone tell a competitive swimmer, "Just swim, man"?
People swim faster by developing (and making habitual) techniques that will get their bodies through an aqueous medium. This development is a process of research, discussion, and experiment, employing many training modalities beyond swimming itself.
Ah, but "just run, man." If you're good, you'll get better; if you're lousy, you may approach mediocrity--and should be thankful for that much, because that's the most you deserve.
Good thinking.
I train it specifically because there is an obvious flaw in my arm mechanics. I've worked on fixing some muscle imbalances/inflexibilities and just focusing on good form to try to correct it
Bad Wigins wrote:
More important is shoulder rotation. If you imagine a line perpendicular to the direction of motion, passing through the body from left to right, the shoulders should be at an angle equal and opposite to the angle of the hips, relative to that line. That is, the shoulder should be as much forward as the hip is back.
Without shoulder rotation, you're mainly just flailing your arms around without much improvement to your biomechanics.
Agree. This shoulder rotation is most obvious with Tirunesh Dibaba. Her arms move very little if at all, it's the shoulders, and to do that core muscles have to be strong.