Fastest time run off Pfitz 18/55

Depending on talent and aerobic base, the 18/55 plan generally gets people into the 3 hour to 3:30 range. The biggest flaw in that plan is that the amount of mileage is not really adequate to allow you to maximize your potential. As such, it's possible to follow the plan, hit all the paces and still fail to hit your goal pace since you are more likely to fade in the last 6 to 10 miles due to an inadequate aerobic base. Breaking 3 is possible but I would argue that you either need (1) talent or (2) a strong aerobic base prior to starting the plan in order to make it a guarantee.

To put it in perspective, I was once a 16 flat 5k runner that proceeded to not run for 10 years. Once I started again and did the 18/55 plan, I ran 3:25 for the marathon. I faded badly the last 10 miles after going out at 3:10 pace. While I did the plan and hit the times, I had no aerobic base other than what I got from the 18 weeks of specific marathon training.

I'm a huge fan of the Pfitz plan, but I would agree, barring a lot of talent, the 18/55 will get you 3-3:30, but won't come near maxing out your potential.

My best - 12wk/70-85 Pfitz 2:52:2x Windy day, rolling course, may have been 2:50 in ideal conditions.

Most recent - 12wk/100 Pfitz 2:55:xx Hot day. Course errors. Should easily have been sub 2:50 on a perfect day.

i did the Pfitz 18/55 plan for my first and only marathong. i ran 2:43. i'm 29 yrs old and a low mileage guy though and my body breaks down when i do bigger mileage. i ran 30-35 miles a week for 2 months before starting the plan after about 6 years off of running. Obviously, the key is the lactate threshold workouts. They will hurt but they should. i ran all the lactate thresholds at 5:52/mile or faster (ended around 5:40 pace towards the end of the plan), did all the long runs at 6:45 or faster (usually the last 3-4 miles in 6:15-6:25 and took 2 days OFF after ALL the long runs. i also ran a 1:16 half marathon on the biggest mileage week..i think it's possible but you have to be naturally fast (leg speed wise) i was no special talent in HS or college either. the most important thing, in my opinion, is to stay fresh throughout the entire plan. rest over miles but quality pace. i only ran over 7 min pace when i was cooling down after the thresholds. otherwise, 6:45 or faster for everything. i live in hilly northern california too, that helps

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Eat all the food wrote:

Hi everyone! Long time listener, first time caller.

In lieu of a "predict my marathon time" thread, I figured I'd poll other people out there who have used Pfitzinger's plans for past marathons. Since I'm wrapping up my first try at his 18/55 plan, I'm curious as to what kind of times other people have run off of it. In the interest of inclusion, I'll welcome answers from people who have used other Pfitz marathon plans, too.

1) Which plan did you use?
2) What time did you run?
3) How old were you? - also feel free to include any other important details that influenced your training and race

Here's my situation:
1) Pfitzinger 18/55
2) N/A - hoping for sub-3 this coming weekend!
3) 27 y/o male. This has been my first serious training pretty much ever, but I've been hitting my goal paces in all crucial workouts and races.

Curious to hear from others.

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i ran 16:10 in high school. i was a 400m/800m guy who ran 1:55 and 49 flat. ran a couple years in college and fizzled. then started up after about 6 years off. i ran 2:43. the long run is the key. doing long runs before the program too. you should be able to run 20 miles without feeling sore or tired after. i.e. i went on bike rides with my girlfriend the same day as my long run but NEVER ran the day after and usually took 2 days off, with a hot bath and tons of stretching the 2nd day after. in my amateur opinion, you should run 20+ miles at least 5 times before you run the marathon, not 3 like most intermediate plans suggest. marathons are all about efficiently handling nutrients, water and stress, and long runs leave you exhausted if you aren't prepared for them in the training plan. if you can't easily crank out marathon pace miles at the end of your 20 mile long run, you AREN'T ready for a marathon. it's just adaptation. i have friends who can't break 18 minutes in the 5k who can run 2:45 easily in the marathon. most marathoners i know have never broken 5 minutes in the mile, never ran in high school or college but can run around 2:40-2:45 in the 26.2. that's why marathons are lame

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Simlarexperience wrote:

Depending on talent and aerobic base, the 18/55 plan generally gets people into the 3 hour to 3:30 range. The biggest flaw in that plan is that the amount of mileage is not really adequate to allow you to maximize your potential. As such, it's possible to follow the plan, hit all the paces and still fail to hit your goal pace since you are more likely to fade in the last 6 to 10 miles due to an inadequate aerobic base. Breaking 3 is possible but I would argue that you either need (1) talent or (2) a strong aerobic base prior to starting the plan in order to make it a guarantee.

To put it in perspective, I was once a 16 flat 5k runner that proceeded to not run for 10 years. Once I started again and did the 18/55 plan, I ran 3:25 for the marathon. I faded badly the last 10 miles after going out at 3:10 pace. While I did the plan and hit the times, I had no aerobic base other than what I got from the 18 weeks of specific marathon training.

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1) 18/70
2) 2:54 (bettered a 3:03 PR substantially)
3) Was 30 years old at the time

Update to my original post, because I want those researching training plans to have one more data point:

1) Pfitzinger 18/55
2) 3:09:43
3) Although I hit all the times on my training runs and felt like I had a shot at a sub-3 this past weekend, I crashed and burned spectacularly after about 30k. I ran at a 6:50, 6:51, and 6:52 pace for the first, second, and third 10ks, respectively, but by mile 19 I completely ran out of fuel. It was a death march to the finish after that.

I think I carbo-loaded pretty well in the days before the race, and I consumed plenty of Gatorade and a packet of those sports beans things along the way, so I don't think this was a typical episode of running out of glycogen and hitting the wall. Instead, as a poster above mentioned, for some people 55 mpw just isn't enough to get under sub-3. I am one of those people.

Naturally, the plan itself may have gotten me to my goal under different circumstances. There were several possible contributing factors which might have contributed to my poor showing. This is not to make excuses for my time; rather, for anyone evaluating potential marathon training plans, I want to make it clear that there were other factors at play:

a. I jumped into the plan 13 weeks out from the marathon. I had a tough time deciding whether to just hop on board the 18/55 or do the 12/55; perhaps the latter would have been more appropriate.

b. I didn't have a big base going into the program. An injury in the spring kept me from running for a month, and after that I logged around 30 mpw until about 18 weeks out from the race, when I started putting in around 40. But these were relatively unstructured miles.

c. I missed an entire week of running three weeks out from the race. This was approximately the first week of the taper and included a tune-up race, a 16-mile run, and a(n abbreviated) V02 max session, as well as a couple easy runs.

d. I had a persistant cold for 8 days before the race. Although I felt mostly better on race day and I don't think my cold affected me during the race itself, it may have left me less than perfectly rested going into it.

e. It was really windy for several long stretches of the race, which certainly slowed me down, and it was a little warm. Then again, conditions are rarely ideal.

All in all, I am confident that I could have finished in around 3:05 if I had gone out with that as my goal. But by the time it was evident that I wasn't going to make it in under 3:00, it was far too late. I was just dead.

Next year: more miles and/or a more robust base before starting a structured training plan. I still improved immensely because of my training, and I would still strongly recommend Pfitzinger's 18/55 plan. But whether the plan itself didn't have enough mileage, or whether some of the factors listed above had an impact, it just didn't get me to my goal this time around.

Sounds like you learned a lot from this go round. Assuming you can avoid the extra issues I'm sure you'll get sub 3 this next time. Plan out the full 18 weeks. Look at both 55 and up to 75. If you don't want to go all the way up 75, see where the extra miles are and meet in the middle.

Good luck.

Non-runner, started in late 30s. First full was 3:27 on no plan. Pfitz 18/55 got me an easy 3:06 with no missed runs. Negative split, 5k pace last 2 km, etc. Unstructured 30mpw avg for 20+ weeks before starting plan.

Will use it again this winter, then maybe step up to the 18/70 in the spring when I can run mostly outside.

Interesting post on this. I ran 3:24 on 37 mpw over 22 weeks with no coach, but right now I'm trying to get 10 weeks of 35-40 mpw base BEFORE doing the 18-week/55 mpw plan this summer. That will start in June for an October marathon.