What importance does muscularity and strength, even in the absence of actual fighting training, have on a person's fighting skills?
Would the "Gentle Giant" type person likely get their butt handed to them in a streetfight with a skinny-minnie who has more streetfighting, but no weight training experience?
Strength and size are important (200 pound boxers don't go up against 110 pound guys for a reason). But a big muscular pvssy might could get his ash kicked by a small tough guy.
As to your 1st question, weight/mass makes a big difference, with muscle weight obviously making the biggest difference, so just the weight gain alone makes you better.
As for your example, there are too many variables to say.
Lets take this scenario and tell me the expected outcome:
Fighter 1: 140 lbs, but close to 100 lbs of muscle weight,
versus
Fighter 2: 200 lbs, but maybe 70 lbs of muscle weight and otherwise a fat slob.
Fighter 2 is your regular barroom brawler, while fighter 1 is a teacher or other professional metrosexual who just hits the gym regularly.
Who is your money on?
look at me bro, do i look tough to you???!!??? do I?!
From what I've seen, being a good street fighter is really just a matter of lacking normal human inhibition. Most people will hesitate to hurt another human being. It doesn't even matter what the person did or how much they deserve a beat down. Most of us just can't crack someone's skull on the pavement without questioning ourselves and hesitating a bit.
A tiny fraction of the population lacks this normal human inhibition. These people are great street fighters and completely frightening human beings. By the time the big strong guy has committed to beating up the skinny crazy guy, the skinny crazy guy has already bitten straight through the big guy's larynx and jammed his pen through the big guy's eye.
Nothing--not weight lifting, not martial arts classes--can prepare you for a fight with someone who will do literally anything to you without thinking twice about it.
is that lack of inhibition a testosterone-fueled trait?
Bigger and stronger always wins unless other guy is a trained fighter or bigger n stronger has no heart.
jiggaboo jon jones wrote:
Bigger and stronger always wins unless other guy is a trained fighter or bigger n stronger has no heart.
This.
A steroid freak bodybuilder, someone who is say 5'9" 250 who has no fighting skills will get his ass kicked by very few people. The only one's who could take him are trained fighters or natural savages.
BGuyJMilleniumXII wrote:
Lets take this scenario and tell me the expected outcome:
Fighter 1: 140 lbs, but close to 100 lbs of muscle weight,
versus
Fighter 2: 200 lbs, but maybe 70 lbs of muscle weight and otherwise a fat slob.
Fighter 2 is your regular barroom brawler, while fighter 1 is a teacher or other professional metrosexual who just hits the gym regularly.
Who is your money on?
FIghter 2.
Drinker of water wrote:
This.
A steroid freak bodybuilder, someone who is say 5'9" 250 who has no fighting skills will get his ass kicked by very few people. The only one's who could take him are trained fighters or natural savages.
Not this.
Mariusz Pudzianowski's ludicrous MMA career showcases the gym-rat's weakness. After 1 or 2 minutes of exertion they are too exhausted to carry their own weight. You don't have to be a trained fighter to exploit that weakness.
Outside the sporting arena, a 250 pound bodybuilder is likely to get eye-gouged, kicked in the nuts or stabbed, being slow as well as lacking stamina.
I agree with you about savages. Savages are the toughest people on the planet.
Weight training experience will help, but no it's not as effective in making you better at fighting than would be actual practice in fighting (whether that be martial arts, boxing, or "street fighting"). Same could be applied to football - guy who hits weights but doesn't practice will have some advantages but would ultimately not play as well as the guy who actually practices football even w/o any weight training as the fball practicer will know what to do with the ball.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Drinker of water wrote:This.
A steroid freak bodybuilder, someone who is say 5'9" 250 who has no fighting skills will get his ass kicked by very few people. The only one's who could take him are trained fighters or natural savages.
Not this.
Mariusz Pudzianowski's ludicrous MMA career showcases the gym-rat's weakness. After 1 or 2 minutes of exertion they are too exhausted to carry their own weight. You don't have to be a trained fighter to exploit that weakness.
Outside the sporting arena, a 250 pound bodybuilder is likely to get eye-gouged, kicked in the nuts or stabbed, being slow as well as lacking stamina.
I agree with you about savages. Savages are the toughest people on the planet.
slow at a distance, but explosive in close combat situations. weightlifters train for short explosive movements, well, olympic weight lifters. that has to be an advantage in hand to hand combat.
Very true. True weightlifters, meaning Olympic style lifting, is extremely explosive and would prepare somebody very well for a street fight. These typically last about 30 seconds so endurance is not necessary like in the MMA. Conversely, the meathead at the gym with huge biceps and pecs but no legs or butt or back would be dominated by anyone with more fighting skill regardless of size.
Getting strong is good but provides diminishing returns.
Once already strong, practicing a good 1-2 on a heavy bag occasionally will do more for your fighting chances than getting slightly stronger still.
BGuyJMilleniumXII wrote:
Lets take this scenario and tell me the expected outcome:
Fighter 1: 140 lbs, but close to 100 lbs of muscle weight,
versus
Fighter 2: 200 lbs, but maybe 70 lbs of muscle weight and otherwise a fat slob.
Fighter 2 is your regular barroom brawler, while fighter 1 is a teacher or other professional metrosexual who just hits the gym regularly.
Who is your money on?
Is fighter one a mountain lion or chimp? Humans aren't built like that. The closest you might find is a 140 lb male Olympic gymnast or weightlifter.
Fighter two wouldn't be very strong but with good technique he'd be able to throw his mass into strikes. Even with mediocre technique he could take someone down. He'd get destroyed though, because the 140 lb teacher with 70% muscle mass is 5 ft tall, and is on very high does of steroids.
Lighten up Francis wrote:
Very true. True weightlifters, meaning Olympic style lifting, is extremely explosive and would prepare somebody very well for a street fight. These typically last about 30 seconds so endurance is not necessary like in the MMA. Conversely, the meathead at the gym with huge biceps and pecs but no legs or butt or back would be dominated by anyone with more fighting skill regardless of size.
The meathead would instinctively go for the bearhug and then what?you dont need a butt or back if you got someone in a bearhug.
Drinker of water wrote:
jiggaboo jon jones wrote:Bigger and stronger always wins unless other guy is a trained fighter or bigger n stronger has no heart.
This.
A steroid freak bodybuilder, someone who is say 5'9" 250 who has no fighting skills will get his ass kicked by very few people. The only one's who could take him are trained fighters or natural savages.
I saw a bodybuilder who weighed about 230 and won a state title sucker punch another guy who weighed about 180 -- but who was a pretty good Div 1 wrestler. The wrestler dude rolled with it took the bodybuilder to the ground and beat him into a bloody pulp. Quite impressive.
"Street fight" is a cliche expression, I guess you're supposed to imagine tough guys in the city duking it out for territory? Well guess what, they use weapons for that.
Lift weights for 10 years until you're 300 pounds of pure terror, and then some sneaky little runt runs up and stabs you in the gut, and you can't catch him because you're a big fat gym rat, explosive power or not.
If you had to battle Mariusz Pudzianowski in an unbounded arena, such as an open plain, he would constantly be on defense. He couldn't outsprint you, so you would dictate where and when the actual combat happened. The best he could achieve would be a draw. He would be doomed like a tarantula battling a tarantula-hawk wasp.
Being strong doesn't mean you have fast hand or foot speed. A good boxer-type could land several punches before the body builder knew what was up and avoid the counter punches when they came.