Will we ever see world class West African distance runners or East African Sprinters?

Mid-distance wrote:

Or are people of West Africand descent just cannot become elites in the long distance and East Africans with sprints due to their genetics? Both people are very genetically diverse, and I have definitely seen my fair share of beefy and tall East Africans who's explosiveness would make them into very fine sprinters, and people of West African descent who have had the short and skinny build of the typical long distance runner and were fine endurance athletes. Another interesting thing is studies that have been done on ACTN-3, or the "speed" gene, which is said to make or break sprinters, is almost as prevalent in East African populations as West African populations.

I'm not sure that you understand how East Africa came to be populated. At least 80% of East Africans trace their roots to West Africa from the Bantu expansions about a 1000 years ago. The Kalenjin tribe, from which nearly all of the Kenyas distance runners trace lineage to, came from the North, which is now Sudan and Western Ethiopia.

I do not know a ton about west Africans and sprinting but I can tell you that there are some east African who seem to have some serious sprinting potential. The distance runners are mostly Kalenjin but it is a very diverse place. Have you ever seen the Kenyan rugby team? If someone were to scout out fast rugby players and develop them into sprinters I think Kenya could have some decent sprinters. Similar to how many American sprinters started out in football.

http://nimg.sulekha.com/sports/original700/emirates-dubai-rugby-sevens-2009-12-4-15-47-49.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_Sez80p6Na8/0.jpg

Will you ever see a big muscular person as a world record hold in the marathon, I doubt it. Will you ever see a tiny skinny person win the 100m- probable but highly un-likely.

Well the nature of the marathon is to carry as little weight as possible the fastest

The nature of the 100m is to power your frame as fast as you can in a straight line.

Big muscular guys have the explosiveness to generate the speed, a 130lb person cannot get up to 10 meters per second that quickly.

however a 190-200lb man cannot carry himself at 4:50 pace for 26 miles without sustaining an injury or completely imploding.

East African sprinters? You mean, like the Kenyans who won the OG 4x400 in 1972?

malmo wrote:

I'm not sure that you understand how East Africa came to be populated. At least 80% of East Africans trace their roots to West Africa from the Bantu expansions about a 1000 years ago. The Kalenjin tribe, from which nearly all of the Kenyas distance runners trace lineage to, came from the North, which is now Sudan and Western Ethiopia.

Interesting. I knew Kenyans had substantial Bantu DNA, but does that also apply to other East Africans who have excelled so well in the long distance races like the Ethiopians?

I honestly think the one of the main fundamental reasons is the perpetuation of the stereotype that East Africans are only good at long distance races and should never try for other track events, at least in the case of Ethiopians. Mohamed Aman, the rising star of the middle distance, relates that he was ridiculed by his countrymen for first starting out in the middle distance races.

I also think major malnutrition, which affects muscular growth and final height, is another fundamental problem that may contribute to the lack of world-class East African sprinters. East Africans who are born in developed countries certainly seem to be several inches taller and generally more "beefy" than the majority back in their home country. That's why I believe that the first East African elite sprinter will not necessarily be representing an East African country, but a developed western nation.

Don't quote me on this, but I've heard David Rudisha once hit 10 seconds in the last 100m of a 400m race in Kenya, not sure if its hearsay or fact. If it is true, then if Rudisha actually bulked up and started training for sprints, he could definitely be a sub-10 second man.

You don't get much further west in Africa than Morocco. So does El G count?

insightlessness wrote:

You don't get much further west in Africa than Morocco. So does El G count?

Nah, Morocco is still considered North Africa.

O.o wrote:

Big muscular guys have the explosiveness to generate the speed, a 130lb person cannot get up to 10 meters per second that quickly.

Not true. A 130lb would need less muscle to do that than a bigger guy. (basic physics, no?)

iyugiuh wrote:

Not true. A 130lb would need less muscle to do that than a bigger guy. (basic physics, no?)

Incorrect. While it is basic physics, the 200 lb man can generate a much larger thrust force to propel himself forward than a 130 lb man and would hence have a much higher top speed than the 130 lb man. Of course, there is the point of diminishing returns where being too heavy will start to affect your speed.

It is all about opportunity. The training infrastructure for distance running is superior in E Africa. Altitude, temperate weather, coaches, tons of people working hard together in huge training camps etc. In W Africa, there is only similar altitude in the mountains of Cameroon. No Brother Colm O'Connel in W Africa. No coaching.

Also, plenty of E Africans have great speed. They just end up playing soccer. Arsenal just signed a Kenyan for 10 mil pounds. Distance runners make good money and buy a big farm for their family. Soccer stars buy a big house on the beach in St Tropez for their girlfriend.

malmo wrote:

I'm not sure that you understand how East Africa came to be populated. At least 80% of East Africans trace their roots to West Africa from the Bantu expansions about a 1000 years ago. The Kalenjin tribe, from which nearly all of the Kenyas distance runners trace lineage to, came from the North, which is now Sudan and Western Ethiopia.

Do many distance runners come from the people of the Bantu expansion? It is a little hard to trace all the ethnic groups but from what I can tell the in addition to the Kalenjin the Maasai, Oromo, Luo, Amhara, and Tigray are not part of the Bantu expansion. Kikuyu and Luhya are part of the Bantu expansion, but I don't know if any elite runners come out of Kikyuy or Luhya peoples.

I'm not sure that you understand how East Africa came to be populated. At least 80% of East Africans trace their roots to West Africa from the Bantu expansions about a 1000 years ago. The Kalenjin tribe, from which nearly all of the Kenyas distance runners trace lineage to, came from the North, which is now Sudan and Western Ethiopia.

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That's not really true, the Bantu expansion began around 3000 Bc from what we call nowaday Cameroon. In fact you've got to look at the language strucure. Bantu languages are not spoken in West Africa but everywhere in the rest of Subsahran Africa. those languages are also spoken in Cameroon (Which is generally considered central Africa) but not in Nigeria despite both countries sharing a Border.

EZ10Miler wrote:

Will you ever see a big muscular person as a world record hold in the marathon, I doubt it. Will you ever see a tiny skinny person win the 100m- probable but highly un-likely.

Allyson Felix, compared to most female 100m runners, is on the skinny side and dominates.

No, never. East Africans just aren't genetically built to be world-class sprinters nor are West Africans built to be world-class distance runners. Although there are many physiological reasons, the main reason why we will never see an East African sprinter running sub 10 seconds is because of the fact that they have a very high proportion of slow twitch muscle fibers. You at least need to have 60% or more fast twitch muscle fiber composition to even get close to those times.

The reverse is true for West Africans. They will never be world class distance runners because they don't have the required slow twitch muscle fibers that are as fundamental to distance running as fast twitch fibers are to sprints.

Hr kenyans had a number of participants in the men's and women's sprints in London. Their 4 by 4 team was competitive. Doesn't that count as world class?

So you dont think Rudisha could become a world class 400 meter runner? What is world class for you? Lets say under 45 seconds is world class. I think he could get there if he trained and lifted weights like a sprinter.

When I'm talking about East Africans, I'm talking about Pure East Africans like the Oromo, Tigray, Kalenji, etc. that dominate long distance racing. Can you even name one sprinter out of these ethnic groups that is even sub-11 seconds let alone sub-10 seconds? No, and you will never be able to because of their genetics and physiology. These people just aren't built for sprinting.

I have a strong feeling Rudisha and other Kenyan sprinters with potential have at least some West African admixtures.