Fascinating thread from 8 years ago. How come no LRCers accuse Kenyan distance runners of being on EPO?

Vast numbers are successful every year for decades with very few positive tests ever, which suggests that the conditions, culture, and program are responsible. Some may be doping with their European coaches/doctors masking but overall they are just easily the best and deepest distance running countries.

They live and train at attitude, and get the same effects EPO gives you, but with injury risk ! I have been to kenya and seen how they train. They give nothing but 110% , eat, sleep and run 0 distractions, competition is like rest to them, because they train SO HARD!

Rosa, Hermens, Canova ("drugs don't work for black people") lack of serious testing...

They live and train at attitude, and get the same effects EPO gives you, but with injury risk ! I have been to kenya and seen how they train. They give nothing but 110% , eat, sleep and run 0 distractions, competition is like rest to them, because they train SO HARD!

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Really?

So its the hard training? Are you sure you seen this for yourself? A you ruling out talent?

They may be doping but so are westerners. They dominate the sport and the reason is not doping. Any drugs that Kenyan runners are taking Americans are also taking. If you call out certain people for cheating without any evidence than you have to also assume that their competition would be cheating.

Why the double standard? wrote:

why is it seemingly taboo to accuse them of being cheats?

You haven't looked too hard if you can't find posts with people accusing Kenyans and Ethiopians of doping on here.

There certainly could be doping going on and there are reasons to think that Kenyan testing isn't as rigorous as in the US, UK, etc. (no tests at national championships, etc.), but as the last poster said, there are so many Kenyans who are so good at young ages that it's hard to attribute a big part of the Kenyan success to doping.

They have been running for long time, they still hunt by running after animal until it drops, still running to school/places. With every generation the "running" gene becomes more dominant and more talented youngsters emerge, 3runs a day, healthy food, lots of rest, 0 distraction helps also :)

This topic has been covered extensively on this posts

1) The sporting prowess of Kenya was noted 50 years ago when this country was still fighting for black civil rights (link provided below)and Kenya was newly independent (see link below)

2) Kenya is very poor country it does not have the resources /pharmaceutical base to sustain BALCO like affairs.

3)Kenyans are tested like anyone else when they compete this has been discussed ad naseum

4)The percentage of top Kenyans that have been implicated in PED is neglible. Kenya and Ethiopia have never lost a medal due to drugs, very few other top nations boast of such records

5)Finally, as a social creature, do you think that the world would allow some scrawny Africans to win unfairly? There are a lot of people like you all over the world with biased views about certain people and if there was even a hint of systematic doping in Kenya, all their athletes will be painted with one bad brush

6)EPO is a drug that is used in treating conditions ranging from kidney failure to cancer, the fact that you can buy it in a chemist in Kenya is due to the fact that in Kenya you can buy any drug, I have been to Kenya and any Kenyan on this board will concur that pharmaceutical controls are lax. When I say you can buy any drug at the chemist, I mean anything ;)

7) Sit back and enjoy human endeavor which ever country it might be from, some people will be better than you in somethings.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079410/index.htm

what are you even saying ?!

super** wrote:

5)Finally, as a social creature, do you think that the world would allow some scrawny Africans to win unfairly? There are a lot of people like you all over the world with biased views about certain people and if there was even a hint of systematic doping in Kenya, all their athletes will be painted with one bad brush

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079410/index.htm

But this is the reason why the IAAF won't implicate or bust any Kenyan athletes. It's only going to make the sport look bad.

If they bust a few and inevitably the world looks upon Kenya as a doping country, all of distance running loses credibility (in the eyes of the perhaps less 'in the know' sporting public. What it won't do is stop Kenya from dominating the sport.

What we've got now is the best of a bad job. Races nobody is interested in dominated by identikit Africans, but naturally done and no question of legitimacy. What happens if you bust a few is that you get the same identikit Africans but under a shadow of doping. Even worse than before.

So anyone saying that the IAAF would bust Kenya/Ethiopia if they were actually doping is deluded. There is no benefit - it's not going to suddenly mean that European/US athletes (perhaps white athletes) are going to start racking up the medals.

super** wrote:

5)...There are a lot of people like you all over the world with biased views about certain people and ...

7) Sit back and enjoy human endeavor which ever country it might be from, some people will be better than you in somethings.

Let's be clear. I am not making any accusations, nor am I biased against anything. I'm merely asking a question and presenting it for discussion.

Why the double standard? wrote:

Let's be clear. I am not making any accusations, nor am I biased against anything. I'm merely asking a question and presenting it for discussion.

Wasn't there a huge thread on here recently about EPO being available over-the-counter in Iten and other training centers in Kenya? That thread was based on a report in a German magazine, iirc. Anyway, I feel like this is discussed on here a fair amount.

Total bullshit, as usual. Kenyans and Ethiopians have been busted. Moroccans have been busted. Americans have been busted, and Spaniards, and Russians, and English, and Irish, and German, and any other nation with a strong presence in athletics.

What's more, IAAF has little incentive to cover up doping by African athletes. Track's downfall has tracked very clearly with the rise of Kenyans/Ethiopians, and for obvious reasons. Europeans and Americans have stopped watching track as their athletes have fallen further and further back from medal contention.

The link provides evidence that 50 years ago the potential of Kenyan Athletes was already apparent. Abebe Bikila running barefoot in 1960 inspired Many Ethiopians, he did not have shoes wonder if he could get some PED?, In 1968, Keino must have been on drugs

IAAF busted and erased records set by Americans, busted Russians, has busted Olympic champions, it will definitely not have any qualms busting any Kenya. If it were shielding Kenyans or Ethiopians with positive tests someone will have leaked that. Remember IAAF does not deal with tests that is the job of WADA. John Ngugi, was suspended for not taking a test, yet he was olympic champion and the first 5 time xc champion.

I will say it again,... Finally, as a social creature, do you think that the world would allow some scrawny Africans to win unfairly? the answer is NO

Have you been to Kenya? I have been, the pharmaceutical controls in Kenya are lax and you can buy anything and most chemists are not the cvs/walgreens we have, they are Kiosks. EPO is a drug used primarily in renal patients and cancer patients its use in athletics is secondary compared to its medical use.

leg speed wrote:

[quote]Why the double standard? wrote:

Let's be clear. I am not making any accusations, nor am I biased against anything. I'm merely asking a question and presenting it for discussion.

I would suspect that some of their long standing regular" top" performers are using Epo just like other countries but would suspect that Epo use is far less in Kenya just due to the number of athletes they produce on A regular basis. I am far more suspicious of the Ethopian athletes who are tightly controlled by their federation where doping could be systematically controlled and administered.

Azaleas wrote:

Total bullshit, as usual. Kenyans and Ethiopians have been busted. Moroccans have been busted. Americans have been busted, and Spaniards, and Russians, and English, and Irish, and German, and any other nation with a strong presence in athletics.

What's more, IAAF has little incentive to cover up doping by African athletes. Track's downfall has tracked very clearly with the rise of Kenyans/Ethiopians, and for obvious reasons. Europeans and Americans have stopped watching track as their athletes have fallen further and further back from medal contention.

Didn't you read my post at all? Busting a few Africans doesn't stop Africans from winning distance races.

All it does is turn a tedious 'clean' event into a tedious 'dirty' event.

The only East Africans that get busted are the odd rogue Ethiopian in a road race and a few in-competition errors from Kenyans. The IAAF OOC testing (the only OOC testing these athletes have to face) has had zero success in catching cheats in that region.

East Africans are the biggest dopers of them all. Wake up.

Well, then it is settled the thing East Africans are better than the rest of the world is actually beating drugs tests for drugs designed and manufactured in the west!Next time I watch them, Dibaba and Rudisha wont amaze me by their running, but, by their ability to beat a system that athletes from more developed nations can not really beat.Amazing people those East Africans, I am so much more in awe of them