Now That Webb is In They'd Better Let Fam in

That's not how the game works. Fam isn't sponsered by Nike.

How about instead of creating a class of privileged athletes, based on dubious accomplishments in previous Olympics, which are only dubiously relevant to what they can do this year, we just say that a qualifying time for the distance above or below the distance you want to run can be used.

Say Webb has the 12th best 1500m time, that can also count as the 12th best 800m time or the 12th best 5000m time or even the 12th best steeple time. To use his 1500m time in a different race, all he has to do is give up his spot in the 1500m.

One of the beautiful things about track and field is the objectivity of the stopwatch (or the tape measure). Every time we make a farce of these standards we become more and more like figure skating or gymnastics, where who you are is more important than how you actually perform.

Despite my man postings on this topic I have nothing at all against Alan Webb. It is a systems issue, not a Webb issue.

So you adamantly opposed to the World Championships policy of allowing the champions a free pass in the next World Championships?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

One of the beautiful things about track and field is the objectivity of the stopwatch (or the tape measure). Every time we make a farce of these standards we become more and more like figure skating or gymnastics, where who you are is more important than how you actually perform.

Despite my man postings on this topic I have nothing at all against Alan Webb. It is a systems issue, not a Webb issue.

Funny I seem to remember you or Rojo defending the ploicy of allowing Goucher into the 2008 Trials 10k final.

Disrespect wrote:

So you adamantly opposed to the World Championships policy of allowing the champions a free pass in the next World Championships?

That is the rule. It does not depend upon who you are or who you know. It is not subjective. In other words, IT IS NOTHING AT ALL LIKE THE CURRENT TOPIC.

Disrespect wrote:

So you adamantly opposed to the World Championships policy of allowing the champions a free pass in the next World Championships?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

One of the beautiful things about track and field is the objectivity of the stopwatch (or the tape measure). Every time we make a farce of these standards we become more and more like figure skating or gymnastics, where who you are is more important than how you actually perform.

Despite my man postings on this topic I have nothing at all against Alan Webb. It is a systems issue, not a Webb issue.

Mr. Obvious is talking about the rules as they stand right now. If there were actually a rule in the US qualifying standards that said past champions or past olympians had a free pass, that would be one thing. There would be some system to the madness. As it is , they are just making an arbitrary exemption without any rhyme or reason.

Mr. Obvious made no critique of this other system.

REading comprehension.

Re: letting past olympians, champs in- As long as it doesn't drop a qualifying runner. Also, Webb should get ZERO criticism. I disagree with his entree. But those holding it against HIM are hypocrites. If they were given a great, high $$ job, despite a lacking resume', they wouldn't turn it down. EXACTLY the same thing with Webb.

For SC there is supposed to be a field of 24 and 2 heats. There are 14 A guys. Fam is #27 overall.

To take people down to Fam you would have a heat of 13 and a heat of 14. That's a lot in the SC.

If they keep the field at 24, Fam has to jump 3 people.

I think Fam deserves to run based on his past performance, but the subjectivity of how they let people who have met the B standard in bothers me.

I agree however that the rule should be that past Olympian and national champions should get automatically, but only if they run the B time.

might be wejo wrote:

That's not how the game works. Fam isn't sponsered by Nike.

pretty much THIS.

Wejos solution is pretty good, let both fam and webb in. I like how the PGA handles these sorts of issues, you've got to earn your way into tour events, but it's not just based on your proformace this year. There are lots of ways to do it, some events have lifetime invitations, others five years, others just one year and these are based on lots of different criteria (major wins, specific event wins, money list, world ranking, and even exemptions).

ummm, whaaaa? you've never seen 14 guys successfully negotiate a steeplechase before? hmm, i'm a bit of a noob to the sport, but i've seen 15-16 on a regular basis do just fine in the steeple, esp when they are of such varying abilities (yes, 8:20 is a hell of a lot diff than 8:36).

How the math works wrote:

......To take people down to Fam you would have a heat of 13 and a heat of 14. That's a lot in the SC........

I agree however that the rule should be that past Olympian and national champions should get automatically, but only if they run the B time.

The reason I assumed you are opposed to the World Championship rules is because you stated unequivocally that:"[it becomes where] who you are is more important than how you actually perform "Well that is how the World Championships are. It doesn't matter how fast you actually perform during the qualifying window if who you are is the prior champion.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

One of the beautiful things about track and field is the objectivity of the stopwatch (or the tape measure). Every time we make a farce of these standards we become more and more like figure skating or gymnastics, where who you are is more important than how you actually perform.

Despite my man postings on this topic I have nothing at all against Alan Webb. It is a systems issue, not a Webb issue.

anonymouse cowherd wrote:

ummm, whaaaa? you've never seen 14 guys successfully negotiate a steeplechase before? hmm, i'm a bit of a noob to the sport, but i've seen 15-16 on a regular basis do just fine in the steeple, esp when they are of such varying abilities (yes, 8:20 is a hell of a lot diff than 8:36).

Let's put it this way - a big field in the SC is a bigger concern than in the 5000 because of the hurdles. The hurdles make it harder to run in a pack and create more of a chance of injury if everyone is crowded together.

They have already set the field size at 24, so I assume it will be 2 heats of 12. It's just a matter of whether Fam gets in ahead of other guys with a faster B time.

I think I'm right, however, that they have gone over the target field size in the past at least in other events.

the fact that this stuff is even being debated on a message board is ridiculous. we think we know what the process is in the rule book, but clearly webb got around that petition process with his early upgrade somehow. the real rule book is in Chaplin's head apparently. the USATF needs to add in more loopholes like the one that wejo suggested if they want to make sure that they get these guys in. we've argued these issues for several Olympic cycles and they're all the same - i feel like i'm taking crazy pills here people. someone on the usatf needs to fix this process pronto. letsrun needs to take up the cause and get the process changed - start printing the free fam t-shirts.

Disrespect wrote:

The reason I assumed you are opposed to the World Championship rules is because you stated unequivocally that:

"[it becomes where] who you are is more important than how you actually perform "

Well that is how the World Championships are. It doesn't matter how fast you actually perform during the qualifying window if who you are is the prior champion.

Well, they earned that spot through performance. The rule is clear and unambiguous. Everybody is treated the same way under the rule.

Why do people keep on thinking that the only way to qualify is by time? Have you ever heard of USATF? Even though Webb doesn't meet these standards it is still stands that more than time is considered.USATF Rule 8:Track and Field.(a) During the current or four previous calendar years, earned an individual medal in track and field in an Olympic Games or in an IAAF World Indoor or Outdoor Championship.(b) Is the reigning USA Indoor or Outdoor champion.(c) Has a World or Olympic ‘A’ Standard that would apply to the current championship team selection.(d) Finish as one of the top three at the preceding year’s corresponding national championship (Indoor qualifies for Indoor, Outdoor qualifies for Outdoor).

call my lawyer wrote:

the fact that this stuff is even being debated on a message board is ridiculous. we think we know what the process is in the rule book, but clearly webb got around that petition process with his early upgrade somehow. the real rule book is in Chaplin's head apparently. the USATF needs to add in more loopholes like the one that wejo suggested if they want to make sure that they get these guys in. we've argued these issues for several Olympic cycles and they're all the same - i feel like i'm taking crazy pills here people. someone on the usatf needs to fix this process pronto. letsrun needs to take up the cause and get the process changed - start printing the free fam t-shirts.

Did Fam go through whatever appeal process Webb did? If not, this whole discussion is meaningless.

Crazy 8 wrote:

Why do people keep on thinking that the only way to qualify is by time? Have you ever heard of USATF? Even though Webb doesn't meet these standards it is still stands that more than time is considered.

USATF Rule 8:

Track and Field.

(a) During the current or four previous calendar years, earned an individual medal in track and field in an Olympic Games or in an IAAF World Indoor or Outdoor Championship.

(b) Is the reigning USA Indoor or Outdoor champion.

(c) Has a World or Olympic ‘A’ Standard that would apply to the current championship team selection.

(d) Finish as one of the top three at the preceding year’s corresponding national championship (Indoor qualifies for Indoor, Outdoor qualifies for Outdoor).

So, yes, there are generous provisions whereby past champions and medalists can qualify for the trials without a qualifying time in the window. Those are great exceptions. Apparently none of them apply to a guy who has never medaled in a world championship and hasn't made a US team since 2007. Seems fair to me.