Basic Training Principles--New booklet on Lydiard training for high school runners

Nice booklet. Well done

Northern Star: you have become one of my most famous posters on letsrun (besides the gurus themselves: Canova, jtupper, Cabral, etc).

Thanks so much for all your work.

I, for one, very greatly appreciate your other work concerning Canova and Kellogg and and am excited to read this.

Northern Star,

I have a question about the anaerobic training described in the booklet.

It says that only 4 to 6 weeks of anaerobic training is needed in order to fully develop that system. Also, it says that 2 to 3 workouts a week are devoted to this type of training.

My question is that if you only did one anaerobic workout a week could you extend that time to anywhere from 8 to 18 weeks?

Basically are we counting each anaerobic workout/race or number of weeks?

Well done, sir. Thank you for putting this together. Good stuff.

runfastpleasenowsir wrote:

Northern Star,

I have a question about the anaerobic training described in the booklet.

It says that only 4 to 6 weeks of anaerobic training is needed in order to fully develop that system. Also, it says that 2 to 3 workouts a week are devoted to this type of training.

My question is that if you only did one anaerobic workout a week could you extend that time to anywhere from 8 to 18 weeks?

Basically are we counting each anaerobic workout/race or number of weeks?

Good question, Bump

Thank you Northern Star, great stuff as usual.

Thank you for that. Well done.

Hey, great blog John!

+rep

runfastpleasenowsir wrote:

Northern Star,

I have a question about the anaerobic training described in the booklet.

It says that only 4 to 6 weeks of anaerobic training is needed in order to fully develop that system. Also, it says that 2 to 3 workouts a week are devoted to this type of training.

My question is that if you only did one anaerobic workout a week could you extend that time to anywhere from 8 to 18 weeks?

Basically are we counting each anaerobic workout/race or number of weeks?

When writing this booklet, I tried to withhold as much of my personal opinion as was practical. Lydiard was pretty rigorous about "strict periodization," that is, you do your anaerobic work for 4-6 weeks and then that's it, move on to the coordination and championship phase. In reality (keeping in mind that 1962 was fifty years ago), I think you can do "anaerobic" type workouts for longer, like you said by spreading them out more. College runners pretty much have to do this given the indoor and outdoor season.

Even pretty far into the competitive season, I think it is a good idea for distance runners to do one "high end aerobic" workout every week like an aerobic threshold run (ex. 45min @ 85% of 5k pace), an anaerobic/lactate threshold run (ex. 20min @ 92% of 5k pace), a progression run, or cruise intervals, and then one "race specific" workout every week as well. If it's not a race week, you can either do a low-key ancillary workout or just not do a third workout. So yes, I think races do count as anaerobic workouts!

The real problem, and the real thing Lydiard was fighting against when he was writing about all of this, is programs that do 2-3 (or more) hard anaerobic workouts every week for MONTHS at a time. Some high schools are still pretty bad about this, especially when there's cross country from September to November, then indoor track from December to March, and then outdoor track from April to June. Doing lots of anaerobic stuff ALL THE TIME is what really kills you. But if you're a middle distance runner, there's probably nothing wrong with doing a relaxed, low-key "anaerobic" workout like 16x200m at mile pace with a very leisurely 200m jog recovery every two weeks year round if you want to. But you should still FOCUS on aerobic development for 10-12 weeks, then FOCUS on anaerobic/race-specific development for 4-6 weeks before your important races begin. (likewise, there's nothing wrong with a 10k runner doing a long tempo run every week or two year-round either).

That's a great answer and very much in keeping with things I picked up from conversations with Arthur and Barry Magee.

Thanks for your work, John. My son (16) and I (35) are running enthusiasts 38 min 10k and 2:38 marathon respectively and although not super quick we want to improve and find your material/summaries useful and interesting. I have had an idea for a while now and I think you are the best person to provide an opinion.

Given caffeine boosts performance and considering some subscribe to the live high train low principle do you think there would be any benefit in using caffeine for regular workouts. I know this has nothing to do with altitude but I am interested to know if making workouts easier and/or faster would have a positive affect on long term training and racing. (I do not plan on my son using caffeine)

Cool! Let us know when the 'Modern Training' pamphlet comes out!

Being a high school running I appreciate you making this. Also, it's nice to go back and remind yourself of the basics that are so commonly forgotten when dealing with all the other aspects of training.

oz wrote:

Thanks for your work, John. My son (16) and I (35) are running enthusiasts 38 min 10k and 2:38 marathon respectively and although not super quick we want to improve and find your material/summaries useful and interesting. I have had an idea for a while now and I think you are the best person to provide an opinion.

Given caffeine boosts performance and considering some subscribe to the live high train low principle do you think there would be any benefit in using caffeine for regular workouts. I know this has nothing to do with altitude but I am interested to know if making workouts easier and/or faster would have a positive affect on long term training and racing. (I do not plan on my son using caffeine)

I actually wrote a pretty long blog post on the subject of caffeine:

but it was mostly about why the NCAA's caffeine ban doesn't make much sense. With regards to whether it's a good idea to use all the time, I would lean towards no. Steve Magness actually wrote a piece for Competitor.com on just that subject:

he concluded that using caffeine before workouts on a regular basis will overstimulate your central nervous system, robbing you of the "boost" that caffeine gives you. That being said, there have also been some studies that have shown that regular caffeine users still get the same "boost" from caffeine that those who have abstained from caffeine for several days get.

Northern Star,

Thanks for this great answer!

I have read that Lydiard said too much anaerobic running causes the pH of the blood to drop too low which in turn causes burnout.

Do you have an idea of how much anaerobic running it takes until your ph starts to drop too low?

Basically has any research shown that x amount of anaerobic running will lower the ph?

This question is for Northern Star and anyone else who may have an answer.

Bite your fat tongue. The 'Modern training' pamphlet is old news. "Northern Star" did that last year:http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4058716http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4036906Renato even gave thanks for the effort:http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4465229&page=1Look around, and you might also find "Northern Star's" other project, consolidating the ideas of John Kellogg.

PhatTongue wrote:

Cool! Let us know when the 'Modern Training' pamphlet comes out!

John. You need to learn some biochmistry before you start leturing on the subject.

Lactate is the conversion of glycogen and glucose into a molecule that is further converted to fuel for aerobic respiration. Lactate production is NOT anaerobic respiration. That is a separate reaction connected to lactate production. In other words, both aerobic and anaeobic respiration are related to the production of lactate.

???He was talking about training phases, not "biochmistry", nor lactate production nor aerobic/anaerobic respiration.

systems wrote:

John. You need to learn some biochmistry before you start leturing on the subject.

Lactate is the conversion of glycogen and glucose into a molecule that is further converted to fuel for aerobic respiration. Lactate production is NOT anaerobic respiration. That is a separate reaction connected to lactate production. In other words, both aerobic and anaeobic respiration are related to the production of lactate.