training at altitude, racing at sea level?

I also live at altitude and run my marathons at sea level. What I did for my last marathon was to train as if I was at sea level, but just backed off the pace. The problem I had was that I really didn't know what kind of shape I was in. I ended up doing very little at MP or faster, just a lot of miles at 30 seconds slower than MP. During the marathon I felt great through half way but the pace suddenly became too fast.

This year I'm changing things up. I'm also not able to do the long tempo runs at MP at altitude. In fact I ran a 1/2 at alt. 2 months before my marathon in 1:14 and then I went through the half in 1:12 during the marathon 2 months later. So, this year I'm going to replace the tempo run at MP with 4 different runs. A tempo run of 12 - 14 at 30 slower than MP, a 5 to 7 mile run at MP, 3 x 3 miles at MP and 5 to 8 x mile at 10k pace. I feel the long tempo runs are important, but you also need to get use to the pace and that’s why I'm adding the shorter stuff. I do the miles every week and I alternate between the long tempo at slow than MP and the shorter MP runs. I also do a long run of 16 to 22 miles. The pace of the long runs vary depending on the group, but I usually end up running the last 3 or 4 miles at close to MP if the pace isn't too fast during the run.

I would also like to know what others do at altitude, maybe Jason can give his input.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

I was at sealevel a week ago, and running at 7:30 pace was pretty easy, but back at altitude it becomes hard work much quicker, it's much more like "10 mile race pace".

But all the advice I've got for marathon stresses the importance of long runs at or close to goal marathon pace.

This raises the general question, if a runner moves to high altitude for training purposes, do they then try and run exactly the same workouts as they would have at sea level, with all the benefit coming from their body having to work much harder .. or do they run slower workouts which nevertheless end up working their body more efficiently.

Does it make a big difference if you're training for 800m / 1500m, say, as opposed to marathon?

Maybe this is well discussed already on these boards, sorry if I'm just ignorant.

You are not ignorant, those are good questions. I live in Lakewood. As both a coach and runner, I do not recommend that recreational runners (myself included) run long runs at close to marathon goal pace. I think they beat you up to much, especially at altitude. My recommendation is to run your long runs (90 minutes plus) at a comfortable conversational pace. Twice a week I recommend a 50-70 minute run at marathon goal pace. You can accomplish runs of that length at your sea-level pace. I believe it is very important to run AT your goal MP effort, not near it. Long runs are to build endurance and should be comfortable. The 2 MP runs per week will accomplish what you are looking for. Also, I do not recommend intervals as part of a marathon build-up, unless you are trying to race at speeds that are faster than your current 1/2 marathon pace. I usually throw in a 20 minute threshold run as part of a once a week 65 minute run. Asa 50 year old, running about 40 minutes at altitude, I was able to run 3:11 on 50-60 mpw.

Good luck.

A few options. One would be to travel to sea level now and then and try some MP runs a the sea level pace you hope to accomplish in the race. Another would be to do most of your training by feel rather than any particular pace. What does MP feel like at SL -- how are you breathing, etc. If you have to breathe faster than a 2-2 breathing rhythm then you are faster than threshold pace; back off and try to do threshold runs comfortably hard, whatever the pace is. Not that you should use it throughout a marathon, but you should be able to breathe 3-3 at MP; if not then that's too fast for MP. Just train and woek comfortably hard for T , easy for long runs and hard for any intervals you do