Alan Webb started the current U.S. running resurgence

lesbihonest wrote:

Lesbihonest here, after Webb ran his 3:53 in high school and his AR 3:46, everyone had to reach way down and recheck for their manhood.

So how's YOUR manhood?

small little pee pee wrote:

lesbihonest wrote:

Lesbihonest here, after Webb ran his 3:53 in high school and his AR 3:46, everyone had to reach way down and recheck for their manhood.

So how's YOUR manhood?

IMO, Riley, Powell, Sanchez sparked it with the help of Dyestat. That's what got all the HSers aiming higher. Sage, Webb, ritz, hall then took it up a notch, and it's continued since. Sub 9 in HS didn't use to happen only 15 years ago, now we are talking about Freshmen running near there and Soph's breaking 9, and srs running first under 840 then 830.

Yes. In 2004 Webb dominated at the US Trials in the 1500 and he went on to run 3:32.7 that year.

The next fastest Americans were Charlie Gruber at 3:34.7 and Jason Lunn at 3:36.3.

No other Americans under 3:37 that year.

They had to go the 6th place Trials finisher, Grant Robison, who ran 3:35.7 the prior year, to complete the Olympic team.

In 2007 Webb ran world leading times and by the time 2008 came around the competition to make the team was much fiercer with Lagat gaining citizenship and the presence of Lomong and Manzano.

This year the US has 9 guys under 3:35.5 over the last 12 months.

4 guys who have run 3:32 or better in the last two years and an additional guy who got a WC medal - none of whom are Alan Webb.

Webb is facing a resurgence of competitors, a resurgence that he started.

Webb started the race-every-workout-to-feed-your-ego-then-burnout-young-and-blame-everyone-but-yourself trend, I have to give him props on that. Guy ran the best Michigan ever.

I think a better question is, who p*ssed away more natural talent through stubborn refusal to listen to people who knew better, Webb or Pre? At least Pre had the dignity to check out early, and not face the humiliation of being aging badly in public.

What Webb sorely needed was a modern day Bowerman. Someone to tell him to STFU and do what I say.

quote]Neil Owen wrote:

What Webb sorely needed was a modern day Bowerman. Someone to tell him to STFU and do what I say.[/quote]

What about Salazar?

Neil Owen wrote:

Webb started the race-every-workout-to-feed-your-ego-then-burnout-young-and-blame-everyone-but-yourself trend, I have to give him props on that. Guy ran the best Michigan ever.

I think a better question is, who p*ssed away more natural talent through stubborn refusal to listen to people who knew better, Webb or Pre? At least Pre had the dignity to check out early, and not face the humiliation of being aging badly in public.

It's sad that there are people like you on here. Pre died while he was still getting faster. He had set a 5k in 1974, and had just gone 501 in the 2000 shortly before dying.

Webb like everyone surely made his share of mistakes. He's still trying and doing pretty well at this point. Good for him, and shame on anyone who knocks a guy for trying no matter how old or slow they become.

Additionally, I've never heard Webb blame anyone but himself for anything. When things go wrong he takes it out on himself, not others.

Mrr82 wrote:

Neil Owen wrote:

Webb started the race-every-workout-to-feed-your-ego-then-burnout-young-and-blame-everyone-but-yourself trend, I have to give him props on that. Guy ran the best Michigan ever.

I think a better question is, who p*ssed away more natural talent through stubborn refusal to listen to people who knew better, Webb or Pre? At least Pre had the dignity to check out early, and not face the humiliation of being aging badly in public.

It's sad that there are people like you on here. Pre died while he was still getting faster. He had set a 5k in 1974, and had just gone 501 in the 2000 shortly before dying.

Webb like everyone surely made his share of mistakes. He's still trying and doing pretty well at this point. Good for him, and shame on anyone who knocks a guy for trying no matter how old or slow they become.

No Way wrote:

It's sad that there are people like you on here. Pre died while he was still getting faster. He had set a 5k in 1974, and had just gone 501 in the 2000 shortly before dying.

I just don't live in an imaginary world. Pre had the highest tested VO2 max in the world in his day. All that talk about running on guts when he was simply born with more talent than anyone else. Do you coach your athletes to run off the front and lead wire to wire? Why Not? Because it is stubborn and stupid. It would be sad if Pre died of cancer, but he didn't. He died of stupidy, specifically his own.

The reality is that he wasted, in more ways than one, what might have been the greatest running gift in human history to that point. That's what's sad.

If you want to romanticize him, go ahead. But don't dump on me for facing reality. Real life isn't a movie with a Chariots of Fire soundtrack.

Bob Kennedy started it.

Bernard Lagat running for the US raised the bar for US distance running in a huge way. Matt Tegenkamp and Alan Webb thus raised the level for 1500 and 5000. Teg was crucial and is still very underrated. I think he's going to make the team. He got 2nd in 07, 2nd in 08, won in 09 closing in 53, made the 10k team in 2011...

Actually Grant Robison didn't make the finals in the 2004 Olympic Trials, we was 10th in the semi-finals. Nathan Robison was 6th in the finals.

Grant Robison went to Athens because his qualifier was from the year before.

I'm pretty certain I started it.

Neil Owen wrote:

I just don't live in an imaginary world. Pre had the highest tested VO2 max in the world in his day. All that talk about running on guts when he was simply born with more talent than anyone else. Do you coach your athletes to run off the front and lead wire to wire? Why Not? Because it is stubborn and stupid. It would be sad if Pre died of cancer, but he didn't. He died of stupidy, specifically his own.

The reality is that he wasted, in more ways than one, what might have been the greatest running gift in human history to that point. That's what's sad.

If you want to romanticize him, go ahead. But don't dump on me for facing reality. Real life isn't a movie with a Chariots of Fire soundtrack.

You do live in an imaginary world. Fact is you are an idiot. Pre took 4th in the olympics in 1972. When exactly are you suggesting he checked out instead of aging badly? The man who won was 1.5 years older than him (who would go on to double in teh 5k/10k back to back olympics), which at the age of 21/23 can make a big difference. In fact at age 21 Pre was the youngest runner in the entire final, losing to two 23 year olds and a 34 year old (defending champion). Two years later he had dropped 7 seconds from his 5k pr and looked ready to drop it even further. You have no grasp on reality. The reality is the prefontaine in 1974 when he ran his 5k pr, might have been a silver at the 72 olympics, at an age comparable to the people he lost against. He had 6 prs in 1974 between 3k/10k indoors and outdoors. But you're right...he checked out instead of aging badly...a guy setting prs left and right should def retire....

Who exactly are we comparing Pre against when you said he had the highest TESTED V02 in the world. Were all 3 guys who beat him tested? Didn't realized VO2 made you the best in the world....that age and years of training had nothing to do with it, or other factors involved in running. Oh and blood doping, something most people think Viren did, that wouldn't help you win either would it? VO2 test, that's the end all....nothing else matters genetically does it....you're right.

Nothing you wrote shows you have a grasp on reality or what transpired back then.

US Distance running was DEAD until after the 04 olympics. We went through several years of only being able to send one or maybe two people per event because only one guy could hit the standard.

The start of the reurgence we are in was when Deena and Meb won medals at the olympic marathon. That was a spark, and Bernard Lagat becoming American fanned the flame. Bernard raised the bar almost overnight and it is why we are where we are now.

Massachusetts!

I agree with the person who gave credit to dyestat.

Back when I was in high school here in Colorado Megan Kaltenbach, of Smoky Hill, won state in the 3200 her freshman year (1999?) in something like 11:07 and won by 15 seconds, if I recall. I attended this years state meet (over the last few days) and witnessed 9 girls finish between 11:00-11:03 in the 5A big school division, another 2 ran 10:55 and 11:03 in the 4A division, and girls ran 11:18, 11:18, and 11:19 in the two smallest classifications. Ten years ago girls were winning the small school classifications in 12:30-13:00.

Then yesterday girls ran 4:54, 4:59, 4:59 and about a dozen others under 5:05 across all classifications in the 1600. This continual progression of improvement for the 1600 and 3200 over the last decade is not just in Colorado, but nationally.

Oh. Nate Robison. Not Grant.

Damn. They had to go back to the semis to find a third qualifier in 2004.

Serious progress in the last 8 years.

Old Miler wrote:

US Distance running was DEAD until after the 04 olympics. We went through several years of only being able to send one or maybe two people per event because only one guy could hit the standard.

The start of the reurgence we are in was when Deena and Meb won medals at the olympic marathon. That was a spark, and Bernard Lagat becoming American fanned the flame. Bernard raised the bar almost overnight and it is why we are where we are now.

No offense to Meb or Deena, but both had pretty much nothing to do with the resurgence. Bernard also had nothing to do with it. Webb was a star before any of that happened, Ritz was an inspiration to all years before, and Rupp ran his 13:37 in 2004 when everyone still thought Lagat was a Kenyan competing for them under false pretense.

It started on the HS level with the bar being raised significantly. They you just have to wait until those guys become pros, which is exactly what has happened. More and more tremendous HS classes are now at the age when they are becoming the elite pros, or already are. You don't have to be a genious to know that people in the running community care ware more about Ritz/Webb/Rupp than Meb or Deena. All one has to do is look at how many times their names come up, and then look at how many times Meb or Deena's came up. I'm not suggesting it should be that way, but the fact is, it is. Dyestat and then Letsrun elevated the awareness of the runners, and how well the other runners were doing. This pushed people to another level. Self awareness that others can go faster from things like the rankings dyestat put out, knowing what they were doing to do that, and that just fed off eachother.