DQ question: if course is mismarked from the official course map, what do you do?

Sounds like you should be right up on the front line at the start ... so ask.

And if it was my race and everyone but you went the way it was marked not the way it was on the map, yeah, I'd DQ you.

Well, it sounds like the wrong turn ends into a dead end so it's not like people could actually complete the course going the wrong way. They all had to turn around, but different people had gone various distances before they turned around realizing it was not correct.

And it sounds like the race officials denied that the trail was mismarked, despite countless claims from runners. So maybe it was originally marked correctly by the race officials and then someone changed or moved the markings before the race actually started. I don't know. Like I said, I haven't run this race before.

My main concern is that I don't want to lose the race because I take a wrong turn and others don't. Or I run out further on a wrong turn than others.

How about stopping and resting at the mismarked intersection, then rejoining when the leaders come back. I can't imagine the rd expecting everyone to do an out and back down the wrong trail, and I imagine once the mistake is discovered that it's passed along to the remainder of the pack who then follow the correct route.

Is it cheating? Yeah, a bit.

Are you refering to North Face DC? If that is the case, from what I've heard, the course wasn't mismarked, vandals moved course markers, thus causing a lot of confusion.

Good luck at the race, let us know how things work out.

It's certainly not 'cheating' to take the correct route.

As for the winner, "it depends" on what actually happens. Factors that are usually considered are things like the following: how many people make the "wrong" turn, how reasonable it is to take the "wrong" turn, if a course marshal directed people onto the "wrong" turn, and if a group splits between the "correct" and "wrong" turn but still runs the same distance, if the times are comparable or if one group/person runs significantly faster (e.g. 10-20+ minutes).

Resolution of the winner will come down to a reasoned discussion/argument. But these things are rare and usually sort themselves out.

However, for the most part I think you're describing part of a rational but overstated concern, and part of a fantasy. It is important to distinguish between what appears to be "mismarked" versus that which is "confusing" markings. It could be equally reasonable that any course would have a last-minute change (hazards on the trail) or map difference (old, incorrect map), plus the small chance of misremembering or interpreting the map in the first place. If you fixate too much on a possible wrong turn, you may create one where one doesn't exist, so don't be afraid to trust the 'flow' of the course and its markings.

not deao here wrote:

...the course wasn't mismarked, vandals moved course markers, thus causing a lot of confusion.

Those pesky vandals, what next?

Kip L wrote:

not deao here wrote:

...the course wasn't mismarked, vandals moved course markers, thus causing a lot of confusion.

Those pesky vandals, what next?

Not sure if you're being facetious or not, but I've run several trail races where someone has either torn down markers or moves arrows to send people the wrong way. It does happen.

It would make sense to email the company producing the race and ask what their policy is, for whatever scenario(s) you have in mind. There are some really good questions that have already popped up here that I'll put my RD hat on to answer related to the races I produce...

--What if vandals remove or change course markings and there is no lead vehicle/bike? In that case the course map is the course I'd expect racers to follow.

--What if vandals remove or change course markings and there is a lead vehicle/bike? In that case all racers follow the lead vehicle/bike. Lead vehicles/bikes need to know the course as well as the RD, and need to be in the loop regarding any "on the fly" changes. In my races if a lead vehicle/bike gets to a place that is mismarked they are instructed to phone the RD immediately and the usual instruction I give them is "fix the marking and continue on the correct course per the map". Sometimes we'll even pull someone out of that vehicle to act as a Course Monitor until a more visible correction to signage can be made.

--What if a fellow racer ahead takes a wrong turn? Do not follow that racer unless instructed by race officials. If there has been a legit course change it is on the RD to get somebody there to instruct racers what to do.

--What if I am directed off the official course by a Course Monitor or lead vehicle/bike? My advice runs counter to the "runners must be responsible to know and follow the course" rule that we all hear from day 1 running XC in middle school. Very rarely there will be a legit reason to send a runner onto an alternative course, namely an emergency on the course or something dangerous has happened on the official course that we are detouring rares around. If a CM or lead vehicle goes off course follow that instruction. At worst, if that CM/vehicle was wrong, you have a legit claim against an RD for any prizes you lost by following his staff's instructions.

Thanks, d2xccoach. Good clarification. I'll check with the RD in advance.

One further clarification for future reference for road races, what if a CM or lead vehicle/bike accidentally goes off course, not intentionally? Does the official course map trump the route led by the lead vehicle?

I just ran a small 13 mile trail race where about 9 miles into the race, the top 4 runners were told to go the wrong way by the guys manning an aid station. I came through in 5th but had headphones on so I didn't hear them when they tried to send me the wrong way. The course markings were pretty obvious that I was going the correct way and the top 4 runners ended up repeating a 3 mile loop. The guys called to the finish and told them that I was the one that went the wrong way so when I was the first to cross the finish line, the race director initially was going to dq me. A couple of the front runners knew the area so when they realized they had repeated the loop, they ran straight in on a fire road until they got back on the last section of the trail. They finished a couple minutes after I did.

My advice would be to run the course as it is mapped out and supposed to be run. I wouldn't worry about what any of the other runners do.

Of course part of trail racing involves following the markings and it is easy to zone out especially late in a race when you are running alone and miss a turn. Nobody wants that to happen but it is just part of trail racing and you have to accept that if it either causes you to run long or get dq'ed if you cut the course.

planner aheader wrote:

Thanks, d2xccoach. Good clarification. I'll check with the RD in advance.

One further clarification for future reference for road races, what if a CM or lead vehicle/bike accidentally goes off course, not intentionally? Does the official course map trump the route led by the lead vehicle?

I expect this policy might vary from race to race. In the races we produce if a lead vehicle/bike accidentally goes off course it is still up to the racers to follow that vehicle. That way we at least have everyone racing the same course, even if the distance is then wrong. A few years ago this happened at a 5k we produce, the lead vehicle turned 1 block early, so cut about 2 blocks off the course at the 2.3 mile mark. We moved our Course Monitor up to that spot as soon as we got word of the problem (~2 minutes after it started happening) and sent everyone the same way. That way we still had a legit finish line with all racers having done the same course. Later that day I went out and measured the difference and we posted it along with a "translation chart" so that runners could see what the actual distance was and what they would have run (approx) over a full 5k.

The reason why I don't think you should stay on the course map if a CM or lead vehicle is directing you another way is as a racer you don't know if there is an emergency that a race official is detouring you around. Flying Pig had a fire, Pittsburgh had a "suspicious package". You never know...

At worst, if you follow a course official and it turns out they made a mistake and it costs you prize money or an award IMO you have a legit case for the race to provide you with that award. Not that racing is all about what one wins, but if it comes to that point it's a pretty strong argument in your favor.