Cam Levins : Josh McDougal - Is there a comparison here?

what is josh's 10k pr? his 5k is 1320 (i think), so only a few strides behind Cam (mt sac 2007).

levins didnt run this high mileage in high school where josh ran progressively higher mileage throughout adolescence. there is one difference, paramount to cam's success/josh's injuries we cannot know

Josh only ran 28:20 (?). I thought he'd dipped into the mid-27's, but I think that was just everyone's assumption during his senior year.

Yes, i would make a comparison, but i would agree that cam has followed a safer path with bumping up his milage later in his development.

Also keep in mind that McDougal's training was entirely in singles, whereas Levins doubles or triples. I think those daily 18-20 milers played a big role in McDougal's injury, and also made it a lot tougher for him to come back.

mcdougal had strength, levins had strength AND speed.

Levins has GREAT mechanics, and his rise has been unprecedented. Cant wait to see how he does in a fast race.

I don't see the point in Levins running regionals. Doubling at conference, NCAAs, and the Canadian trials is a lot of pounding. Let's hope this isn't another case of a guy pushing the envelope, whose star shines brightly for a brief period before it burns out. That's more often the case than not. I hope he and his coach are smart about their approach. The kid should be able to get the Canadian records this year and make the Olympic team. The way he closed at Payton Jordan, he's already in sub-27:20 shape.

McDougal ran a 3:57 mile, which is at least as fast as Cam has ever gone thus far TMK.

everyone different

what about Cam and Seb Coe or Geoffrrey Mueti's grandma

The big concern then, is whether Levins will hold up. He needs to be smart about his training, of course. It helps that he breaks up his running throughout the day. It may help that he doesn't do much weight training (this is what messed McDougal up). It's very likely that McDougal had a direct influence on how Levins and his coach shaped his training.

"Honestly, people can say it's the mileage that killed me, but they don't know the half of it. I was doing dumb stuff. I was lifting, doing core--just pointless lifting. I probably added 5 pounds of muscle. I built a lot of poor motor patterns. And if you build a poor motor pattern and go run a mile after it, that's one thing. But if you're going to go out and run 18, 20 miles a day, think of how many successive steps that is. It's going to add up."

http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=22056

"Honestly, people can say it's the mileage that killed me, but they don't know the half of it. I was doing dumb stuff. I was lifting, doing core--just pointless lifting. I probably added 5 pounds of muscle. I built a lot of poor motor patterns. And if you build a poor motor pattern and go run a mile after it, that's one thing. But if you're going to go out and run 18, 20 miles a day, think of how many successive steps that is. It's going to add up."

http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=22056

I would love to know what a poor motor pattern is but yeah running high mileage after lifting isn't the best idea in the world.

nocturnal cotton mouth wrote:

"Honestly, people can say it's the mileage that killed me, but they don't know the half of it. I was doing dumb stuff. I was lifting, doing core--just pointless lifting. I probably added 5 pounds of muscle. I built a lot of poor motor patterns. And if you build a poor motor pattern and go run a mile after it, that's one thing. But if you're going to go out and run 18, 20 miles a day, think of how many successive steps that is. It's going to add up."

http://runningtimes.com/Print.aspx?articleID=22056

Running a lot of high mileage before you he was fully physically developed might also be the cause of all his troubles, better to be patient and build up more slowly.

Interesting article from the local paper today on Levins

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765576392/Doug-Robinson-SUUs-Levins-runs-large-number-of-miles-to-reach-lofty-goals.html

"Mileage was one of the only things I could do to make the jump I wanted to. I knew the Kenyans had done it. I'd heard of athletes in the '70s who did it. I thought it was the way to compete with the Africans. Some say (Kenyans excel) because of genetics, but I think it's a matter of understanding how hard they're working and how much they are running."

Awesome.

The Deseret News is based in Salt Lake City 250 miles away from SUU. It is not a local paper. Also why would they interview BYU coaches about an SUU runner? Very strange to me.

^ I thought the same thing.

Of course there is a comparison. There is also a comparison to Alberto Salazar and Chris Solinsky. In fact there is a good comparison to most American elite distance runners of the modern era. There have been plenty of runners who briefly have great performances from running high mileage. Then suddenly their career comes to an abrupt stop from some injury or health problem, because of high mileage.

ryan foreman wrote:

Of course there is a comparison. There is also a comparison to Alberto Salazar and Chris Solinsky. In fact there is a good comparison to most American elite distance runners of the modern era. There have been plenty of runners who briefly have great performances from running high mileage. Then suddenly their career comes to an abrupt stop from some injury or health problem, because of high mileage.

Hamstring injuries a la Solinsky are actually something one gets from speed work.

I doubt high mileage is the cause of anything but success. A whole nation of Africans have established dominance in everything 3000 and up. They're moving to other countries that will let them compete for them.

Clearly high mileage isn't breaking down these people, its a problem with durability and training not with High mileage.

If anything its because America is so full of drug cheats that we are so softened by the quick and easy route that our bodies can't stand the test of time, when we get to the higher stages our bodies completely break down. Same with many horses, how many humans do you watch completely snap their leg like a horse does in a race?

How many African's do you see completely rupture their Achilles from doing 18 mile runs?

Chris Derrick and Cam Levin's seem to be doing fine with their current path, let them be, you'll never be the next great hope for America playing the low mileage, I just run safely through highschool and college game. You keep worrying about how many people are hurt in the sport because of doing this and that, then you'll be 40 years old wondering what you did wrong along the way.