Trespassing on HS Tracks?

Don't be so quick to assume that you were trespassing.

Many tracks, those at "christian" schools included, are developed jointly with the surrounding municipal authority, and there are often public-access obligations in the resulting use agreement.

That is just one possibility, of many. Go to your city hall or parks department and ask about that specific field, and about playing fields in general within the jurisdiction, and whether that particular school is included in any more general agreement that may exist.

Failing that, go to the school board overseeing the school's operation, and ask about any public-access commitments they may have made.

Also, you should go to the public school board, and find out what types of access they grant, and where a decent track can be found.

Good luck!

I normally just ask beforehand to use the track. Generally they will not turn you down.

Even at a public high school, the public is not allowed to walk the hallways whenever they want.

For very good reasons, the public is typically not allowed to use athletic facilities at public institutions at the same time as they are being used by kids. There are all kinds of protections in place to make sure adults that kids come into contact with during school activities have no threatening criminal backgrounds. Allowing Joe Public to walk into the midst of practices would be foolish.

The fact that you tried to do this at a private school without talking to anyone first was beyond foolish, and how you handled the situation afterwards was simply childish. You basically threw a tantrum.

If you ever want to use that track in the future, I would go back to the school dressed nicely and contact the person in charge to offer an apology, and then ask if there would be a time you could use the track.

Your actions have made it more difficult for anyone else that ever wants to use that track to do so.

Wow! Great post and great comments on a decent topic! Is this really Letsrun.com?

something else then wrote:

I normally just ask beforehand to use the track. Generally they will not turn you down.

do this in the future.

many times while traveling i've emailed HS coaches, explained my situation, and asked about appropriate times to use the track. never been turned down, never been hassled.

I think you just ran into crazy Old Man Ritterbacher, who strays away from the nursing home in town every now and again. He's an ex-football coach and corporate attorney, so he hates runners and potential tort cases. The guy's been giving people the business for years. Next time just tell him you saw Nurse Ratched over in the parking lot, and he'll clear the area real quick.

running is better wrote:

something else then wrote:

I normally just ask beforehand to use the track. Generally they will not turn you down.

do this in the future.

many times while traveling i've emailed HS coaches, explained my situation, and asked about appropriate times to use the track. never been turned down, never been hassled.

This works sometimes but not always. In my area, the school board used to let people use the track, but passed a ordinance or whatever that no one could use the track outside of official school activities. Can't hurt to ask though.

Go on weekdays after the track team has done its thing, or in the morning. The grounds people never work during those times.

Right, because the student population at all public schools is completely safe. Kids get threatened and beaten up by their peers every single day in public high schools. "Joe Public" isn't necessarily more likely to be a past or future criminal than a high school student. I'm not saying anybody should be allowed to walk through the hallways, just pointing out that your reasoning here is bogus. An outdoor track is clearly a different case.

This school is in a densely populated suburban neighborhood. It's smack in the middle of a residential area, bordered by blocks of one-story houses on three sides. The baseball fields are frequently used in the warmer months by local sports leagues for both adults and children. People often play frisbee, football, softball, soccer, whatever, on the field space behind the baseball field, and I've never seen one of those games broken up. Kids and adults clearly not in attendance at the high school were dicking around on the fields behind the baseball game. All on private property. The track was open, so I went over to use it. I've done it before, been nodded and waved to by janitors and groundsworkers, and have never, ever been asked to leave. Nor, I doubt, have most of the older folks who during the summer make nightly use of the track. Do you honestly believe, this school being in the location it is, and the local population being so accustomed to using the fields and track, think that everyone who uses the track has sought permission to do so? No way. Should I have asked ahead of time? Yeah, probably. Props to you if you're the type of guy who would have made sure to ask. But this guy spoke to me like I was trying to sell drugs or something when I was just doing some damn high knee exercises. That isn't right.

Anyways...was I childish? A bit, yeah. To be fair, so was the guy who told me to leave. He flat out lied to me, lost his cool, and then I lost mine. Did I throw a tantrum? No. You weren't there; you can't give an accurate report on what happened.

The "person in charge" who you suggest I see, presumably the school's athletic director, will almost certainly never hear about this incident, and therefore it won't make it any more difficult for anybody to use the track. It's a fairly large school and obviously most of the workers don't care about locals using the track if there's no practice going on, so I have no doubt it'll keep happening.

This guy was clearly abusing his small bit of power just because he happened to be present and in an ornery mood, and didn't like the color of my shoes or whatever. Aside from that, as pointed out earlier, it may be true that I was not actually trespassing. I intend to check on that with the parks department. Hope all that's made the situation a little more clear.

I have had this same BS happen to me before. Sometimes I think people in the school systems forget how to deal with others in the correct fashion because they are so used to yelling at students their whole lives.. I totally agree with your statement about how you would have been treated differently if you were some elderly lady in a jumpsuit.. but no, because you are a young looking know it all athlete you were treated in this manner.. I would look into the schools public use policies and write the school principal about how you were treated by this guy..

I've never been booted, but I have been denied access. One regular MS track just has a sign saying you can't use it when students are present. A real nice one is private and they won't give access and they have security guards so that would be real bad. The third is real nice too and is available to the public for rent through the county so I hop the fence just like all the other people I see there and the grounds keepers never say anything.

I grew up with plenty of Dudley Do Rights and Grounds Keepers Willie threatening me with the cops for skating. You're better off just leaving unless you know exactly what the policy or law is. Afterwards find out what the legal stuff is and print a copy to back you up. If you're right then go back and wait for the cops. Its fun to correctly explain laws to idiots and the police.

Call the school board and get permission. You can vote, I'm guessing.

You should ask permission. Often schools will have you sign a Facilities Use form that gives them some information about you, and has some form of waiver for them. (Also requires some proof of insurance.)

I used to work for a Metro City government and that's what we did when any group wanted to use our school for a meeting place, or hold an event.

The thing is you used a private school's track. They are really under no obligation to make their facility open to you.

Ask permission and go from there.

you should wait until nightfall, then return to that track and set it on fire.

You were skirting the rules, got caught, and now you're whining about it.

Student safety is a valid reason for keeping random adults out of schools. True, students could possibly be dangerous to other students, just like adults. There's a difference though, those potentially dangerous students are required by law to be in school. Adults aren't. That logic isn't as faulty as you try to suggest.

More to the point, just because most of the time they let you on the track it doesn't take away from their right to kick you off. It's not a good practice and it makes you more likely to throw a fit, but they still have the right (unless they have some sort of agreement with the town). Also, if you were an alumnus, yeah you'd still be trespassing. They wouldn't kick you out, and they certainly wouldn't yell at you. They know that they need donations from alumni to stay afloat, so they won't risk alienating you and possibly all track alumni.

You got yelled at, get over it. Worse things happen. Now go talk to the AD and see about getting permission to use the track.

At my local High School, the grounds keepers kicked me out once, and I left nicely. A few days later I went to the Principal and talked with him about using the track. He was hesitant at first, but I pointed out that the Tennis Courts right next to the track were always used by the public. And that kind of made a light go on in his head. The next Fall, they had installed a turnstyle in the fence around the Track with signs describing accepatble uses for the Track.

I've paid so much in property tax in the last 20 years, I'm pretty sure I built our track! Makes me kind of mad when they shut the gates after school, or act like you are trespassing if you use it when they are open.

disgruntledmiler wrote:

I was approached by a groundsman of some sort and told to leave because I was trespassing on private property.

The school that owns that "private property" also pays no property taxes to the town. So private schools and colleges will almost always allow townies to use a track or athletic field to avoid PILOT (payment in lieu of taxes). Groundskeeper Willie is apparently unaware of that friendly agreement.

In general, to attempt to use the track while school is in session won't fly. As already mentioned, school officials can't have random people on site while school is in session.

You might be able to coax a coach to let you workout during a team practice, but that will vary widely from school to school.

If no one is using the track and you attempt to use it, you run the risk of being told to stop and leave. Some people will do that nicely, some will do it angrily.

I blame Bush for it, others blame Obama. Either way, it's too bad.