Do you believe the rest of the SI article about Rupp & Farah? 8 x 1200 at 4,551 Ft Altitude in 3:09/2min rest?

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  • rupp skeptic
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 12:49am CST
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    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1195163/1/index.htm

    Tim Layden wrote:
    They did eight 1,200-meter repeats on the Brigham Young track (elevation 4,551 feet) in an average of 3:09, with two minutes' rest between.

    They did 15 repeats of 200 meters in 25 seconds each on a high school track in Park City, Utah (elevation 6,900 feet), with just a 100-meter recovery.

    I can see workout #2 but isn't #1 a bit hard to believe?
  • High Life
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 1:07am CST
    re: rupp skeptic
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    To these guys, 4500 feet isn't that much so just throw out the altitude. Basically they're doing 8x12 at around 5k pace - slower to be exact. I could see them doing that workout with 60 seconds rest. It wouldn't feel good but it would be possible.
  • Saul Goodman
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 2:10am CST
    re: rupp skeptic
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    I don't believe either. Even without elevation, those workouts would indicate something like 12:50, 3:30 - which are relatively believable for Farah (again, not taking the elevation into consideration) but Rupp is way off unless he's a workout warrior.
  • lewruns
    registered
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 2:16am CST
    re: rupp skeptic
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    i cant believe i didnt know they were at my (BYU's) track!!! im there like everyday!
  • I pity you foo
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 2:29am CST
    re: High Life
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    Yeah, these dudes both did 10,000m averaging 64 low, so I believe 63s for essentially the same thing with 2 minute breaks every 3 laps, even with some relatively minor altitude effects.

    As for the other workout, I'd again say doable if for no other reason than the recovery is measured in distance and not time. They could have taken a minute to cover those 100 meters for all we know. If the recoveries were long, I'd say the altitude would be a non factor since you get help form the thinner air when you're running fast.
  • Speaker of truth
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 2:30am CST
    re: Saul Goodman
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    Saul Goodman wrote:

    I don't believe either. Even without elevation, those workouts would indicate something like 12:50, 3:30 - which are relatively believable for Farah (again, not taking the elevation into consideration) but Rupp is way off unless he's a workout warrior.

    yeah, i mean their indoor 2 mile times are light years apart
  • High Life
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 2:42am CST
    re: lewruns
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    How do you feel about Rodgers Rop running 12x1k @ 2:58 with 2 min recovery... is that impossible too? Bottom line is you won't believe any training that the elites do because you'd never dream of working that hard. There's a reason that even after you get a talented guy, he goes on to be one of the best and not just another "good" runner.
  • MVRunner
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 2:52am CST
    re: High Life
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    8 X 1200 in 3:09 is very believable to me, given Rupp's and Farah's PRs. However, I respectfully disagree with the poster who said that 4,500 feet "isn't that much" to athletes of that caliber. Actually, the reverse is true. Because world-class athletes have such a high stroke volume and their blood moves so quickly, it's harder for them to fully saturate their blood with oxygen than it is for average folks. Thus, world-class athletes see a *larger* drop-off in performance at altitude. For instance, an average person might be able to fully saturate his blood up to 3,000 feet, and wouldn't see the ill-effects of altitude until he exceeded that level. But a world-class athlete, who struggles to fully saturate his blood under the best of circumstances, might see his performance decrease at *any* altitude above sea level.
  • an expert
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 3:03am CST
    re: rupp skeptic
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    it is an conservative "estimate" where they downplay how fast they were running. I guess the average is closer to 3:05.
  • longjack
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 3:51am CST
    re: I pity you foo
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    I pity you foo wrote:

    Yeah, these dudes both did 10,000m averaging 64 low, so I believe 63s for essentially the same thing with 2 minute breaks every 3 laps, even with some relatively minor altitude effects.

    As for the other workout, I'd again say doable if for no other reason than the recovery is measured in distance and not time. They could have taken a minute to cover those 100 meters for all we know. If the recoveries were long, I'd say the altitude would be a non factor since you get help form the thinner air when you're running fast.

    great post ; people should be able to understand.
  • workout monster? not really
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 4:35am CST
    re: rupp skeptic
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    I entirely believe this. This is closer to their 10k pace than their 5k pace.

    Literally just yesterday I did 6x1200, cutting evenly down from my 10k pace to my 5k pace, with 1:30 rest. I'm pretty sure I could have made it 8, definitely with the longer rest. And I live at higher than 5000 feet.

    Obviously Farah and Rupp are doing these quite a bit faster than me, but in terms of rest and effort relative to maximal I think this is a reasonable workout. Especially when you take into account that Farah has been training at altitude for at least a couple of months every season, for years.

    I'm actually surprised this gets such a strong reaction here. I think people overestimate the effects of altitude generally, and on intervals in particular.
  • wuzthere
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 4:45am CST
    re: rupp skeptic
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    The Kenyan 5k and 10k guys do 8 to 10 x 1k starting at 2.30 something and finishing at 2.20 something. The rest period is in the 1 to 2 min range based on time of year. And that is on golf course. And the altitude is much higher than 4,500ft.

    Keep in mind the workout that Rupp did, is pretty much the world record pace for 10k. The WR pace is 3:09.27 per 1200m. So if a human being can run the same eight 1200's with no rest and still throw in another 400m, why can't these guys do it with two mins rest.

    The 200m workout is balooney. Lots of 800 and 1500 guys can do it. I find it hard to believe these guys did it though. When I ran 1.50 point, I could do 8 of them at the 25 point with 45 to 60secs rest, all depended how fast I jogged the 100m rest. I knew 1.46 guys who could do 8 of them at 24 point off of short rest. I know a 1.44 800 guy who ran 8x300 at 37 with the same 100 rest. Nick Symmonds tried to do the workout with him in Belgium. He only made it to number three or four. To run 15 200m at 25 with 100m rest, would indicate 1.45 at worst for 800m, really more like 1.44 would be expected. Those guys must have walked a 100m rest in 2mins for them to do this workout.
  • Sensei
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 4:45am CST
    re: workout monster? not really
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    workout monster? not really wrote:

    I entirely believe this. This is closer to their 10k pace than their 5k pace.

    Literally just yesterday I did 6x1200, cutting evenly down from my 10k pace to my 5k pace, with 1:30 rest. I'm pretty sure I could have made it 8, definitely with the longer rest. And I live at higher than 5000 feet.

    Obviously Farah and Rupp are doing these quite a bit faster than me, but in terms of rest and effort relative to maximal I think this is a reasonable workout. Especially when you take into account that Farah has been training at altitude for at least a couple of months every season, for years.

    I'm actually surprised this gets such a strong reaction here. I think people overestimate the effects of altitude generally, and on intervals in particular.


    The first workout I agree they could do easely, but 15x25 seconds? That sounds a bit much.
  • Mattbigdick
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 4:58am CST
    re: wuzthere
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    15x200 )25)

    We don't know how fast the jog was.

    I ran 20x200 very slow 100 jog in 25 seconds and i only ran 1.49
  • ringo
    registered
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 10:54am CST
    re: rupp skeptic
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    You a troll?

    Of course those guys can do that workout. After living at 4500 feet for a summer and training for college cross I can attest to the fact that you are only just beginning to notice elevation that low.
  • hold the phone
    registered
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 11:27am CST
    re: High Life
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    High Life wrote: How do you feel about Rodgers Rop running 12x1k @ 2:58 with 2 min recovery... is that impossible too?

    I feel that you must have made a typo.
  • Lopkok
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 11:33am CST
    re: ringo
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    4400ft is not thAt high. As soon as you start getting up above 5000 and increasing then workouts get really hard
  • bangalangadanga
    registered
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 11:41am CST
    re: rupp skeptic
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    8 x 1200

    3:15 --> 27:05 10k pace
    3:15
    3:15
    3:10 --> 26:23 10k pace
    3:10
    3:10
    3:10
    2:55 --> blasted the last one (this is where that 2:53 farah, 2:54 rupp, 2:56 o'linard thread comes from?)

    not sure how the altitude influenced this workout.
    yes, yes i do believe they could have done this workout.

    relate the workout to your 10k pace.
  • Canada Coach
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 11:41am CST
    re: wuzthere
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    The 200m workout is balooney. Lots of 800 and 1500 guys can do it. I find it hard to believe these guys did it though. When I ran 1.50 point, I could do 8 of them at the 25 point with 45 to 60secs rest, all depended how fast I jogged the 100m rest. I knew 1.46 guys who could do 8 of them at 24 point off of short rest. I know a 1.44 800 guy who ran 8x300 at 37 with the same 100 rest. Nick Symmonds tried to do the workout with him in Belgium. He only made it to number three or four. To run 15 200m at 25 with 100m rest, would indicate 1.45 at worst for 800m, really more like 1.44 would be expected. Those guys must have walked a 100m rest in 2mins for them to do this workout.[/quote]

    These guys are faster than you at 800m, and their superior recovery would easily allow them to do this faster than you could.
  • insider trading
    7 years ago 02/22/2012 11:57am CST
    re: Canada Coach
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    I can do 8 x 1k solo faster than 5k pace on 2 min rest, so 8 x 1200 on the same rest shouldn't be too hard for world class athletes working with each other. Not sure how much 4500 feet factors into the equation but... just saying.