The day cross country died?

Agree, splitting the championships has diluted the sport at the top end US level. And what's with no WCs this year?

Also, 15 years or so ago when they had the 4K/12K split. That also diluted the championships.

College is exciting as ever, but sad to see so many programs go by the wayside.

Might as well take stab at USATF while we're at it. They are a weak and corrupt organization.

The move to Feb. was to accommodate the World Champs. I remember that there was the traditional November Championships and then a World Trials race in Feb (6 weeks before worlds). Then the Feb race became the Nationals.

Maybe we need a real season of XC throughout the winter culminating in the Nationals and worlds.

The salvation at the top level is so obvious that we don't even see it: make it an Olympic event again. Have a World Champs in the interim years.

it was dead when all of the cu boulder alum runners didn't bother to go to world cross, but they spit on its grave.

Geb re:le sausage wrote:

The salvation at the top level is so obvious that we don't even see it: make it an Olympic event again. Have a World Champs in the interim years.

As it is, the problem with running is that the competition is diluted. There are so many events and so many competitions that you almost never see a race between the best distance runners. Adding another distance race to the Olympics just means that we'll have lower quality in every race. I'd rather see the top 10K guys face off on the track than half of the top 10K guys race on the track while the other half run the XC race. Let's not dilute competition any more.

Exactly. The xc nationals in December used to decide who would represent the USA. Kennedy, Williams, Guistio would line up against Hauser, Goucher, etc. When the tally was in they would go race worlds fitting it in their track pre-season training.

I understand the thinking of a feb. race, have the trials closer to worlds. But it killed it. Pros don't care and college no longer fits it in their schedule.

I do agree that the 12k / 4k split at the same time was awful.

I think a national schedule and series of races is definitely possible in xc if done right. But first bring back December nationals and put xc back in the Olympics!

Heck, make it like xc skiing with different events. Team, pruisuit, time trial, maybe a combined time of 4 races in 5 days like a mini tour. Xc is the heart and sole of our sport. Don't let it die.

Xc in winter Olympics at lower elevation. Problem solved. Xc is a fall / winter sport anyways, not summer.

According to this guy (a Kenyan), the excess of Africans killed cross country. They're about to kill the marathon too. Very boring, that wave of black and lack of diversity.

The Africans killed competitive running. Period.

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/sports/InsidePage.php?id=2000051474&cid=39&story=Who%20plotted%20to%20kill%20World%20Cross%20Country%20Championships?

I think the November champion got an automatic qualifier, but they still had the February tryout. In the 1980s Pat Porter, of course would do (and win) both. The February tryout was a very select field (maybe 100 elite runners), and it wasn't a big media event. November championships were always big, coverage and pictures in Sports Illustrated/NYT etc., and it was open to anyone so you'd have 200 or 300 entrants and a broader range of ability.

The next Huck Finn wrote:

Xc in winter Olympics at lower elevation. Problem solved. Xc is a fall / winter sport anyways, not summer.

This idea has been brought up on here before. People say that they should basically just run an XC race on a snowy course (the snowy course being necessary to fulfill the requirement that the sport be contested on snow or ice). If this would even be legal, I think it's a cheap end run around the rule. It violates the spirit of the rule if it doesn't violate the letter.

The winter Olympics is supposed to be comprised of sports where snow or ice is an integral part of the competition, not just sports that can possibly be contested in the snow where some snow is thrown on the ground.

the africans killed the sport wrote:

According to this guy (a Kenyan), the excess of Africans killed cross country. They're about to kill the marathon too. Very boring, that wave of black and lack of diversity.

The Africans killed competitive running. Period.

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/sports/InsidePage.php?id=2000051474&cid=39&story=Who%20plotted%20to%20kill%20World%20Cross%20Country%20Championships?

You're right. If you go to your local road race to watch your friend finish, the sight of 10 Africans floating into the finish is awesome. But week after week of 10 Africans finishing in the top 10 gets boring.

There used to be diversity- a couple Africans, a couple Europeans, a NZlander or two and some Americans.

runn wrote:

You're right. If you go to your local road race to watch your friend finish, the sight of 10 Africans floating into the finish is awesome. But week after week of 10 Africans finishing in the top 10 gets boring.

There used to be diversity- a couple Africans, a couple Europeans, a NZlander or two and some Americans.

simple cure = prize money for Americans only, why do we feel the need to support Kenyan athletics anyway

Is there any results for this? When I was racing in the 90's it was very clear that the top 6 made worlds.

Actually yes the best USA XC championships of all-time were 1994-97 because there was only one race in December and it was 12k for men. There was no February race and there was no 4k. Without a doubt the deepest fields, good college guys, the club guys and guys trying to make the World Team. On top of this, the World xc team was a nine man team, scoring six.

Blame the IAAF and USATF for diluting it instead of keeping the bar raised. The fact that they split up the races and now have dropped World XC to every other year kills it.

Trust me at the high school level the sport is as popular as ever in many parts of the country and as a college coach I can tell you that it's as exciting as ever and depth is at an all-time high in almost all divisions.

Right now the best non-college meet in the USA is without a doubt the Club Championships. Great fields, good teams, great atmosphere. That's what we need more of!

Why do we have knuckleheads in charge who make such poor administrative decisions with no vision?

Seems as I remember teams of 6 that score 4. And it was a 10k in 94-97... I just looked at my results.

12k was one of the changes with the split. But yes, this is when xc died.

I ran 10k in 94 (Portland), 95 (Boston) and 96 Palo Alto), but 12k (Portland) in 97. World XC was teams of 9, six scored. I know this for a fact. The 97 race in Portland was a mudfest, about 12.3k, four loops around Blue Lake Park. Tim Hacker outkicked Bob Kennedy and Pete Julian. Great race.

The day it really died was when the courses became like golf greens and hills became "too much" for runners to race over. Please, please, please bring back the hills in the big races.

The USATF Champs/Trials 12k were in December of 1997 and the 4k was later in February. March of 1998 was the first year the IAAF tried the 4k / 12k for men and 8k / 4k for women.

That may have been the year they reduced it to 6 person teams, scoring 4. But they were nine person teams on the men's side through 96 for sure.

Here were the results from Portland, December 7th, 1997.

Blue Lake Park 12,165 meters (316 finishers), 30 degrees, raining, very muddy course.

1) 37:31 Tim Hacker

2) 37:34 Bob Kennedy

3) 37:36 Pete Julian

4) 37:38 Robrt Gary

5) 37:47 Rob Cook

6) 37:48 Adam Goucher

7) 37:51 Alan Culpepper

8) 37:58 Mark Coogan

9) 38:00 Michael Donnely

10) 38:00 Jerry Lawson

11) 38:06 Gary Stolz

12) 38:08 Dan Browne

13) 38:10 Mark Croghan

14) 38:12 Nathan Nutter

15) 38:13 Peter Gilmore

16) 38:14 Mike Myktok

17) 38:14 Eric Mack

18) 38:16 Rod DeHaven

19) 38:18 Scott Larson

20) 38:23 Bob Henes

The depth of the field was outstanding with basically everyone on the 199696 and 2000 Olympic Teams from 1500m -marathon in the field.

Major decisions that killed XC:

*4k/12k split

*Club/USA split

*going to every-other-year for world XC

Check out the results from USA cross the other weekend. Almost nobody showed up.

How to save XC:

*Start a small (3-4 races maybe) autumn pro xc circuit in the US, with prize money, culminating in the USA cross championships

*put cross country in the winter olympics

*reinstate world cross as an annual event

*reintegrate club and USA cross; put both in December.