Starting training at 30yo, is it normal to improve slower

It's because they are better than you.

You tend to only hear the good stories but there's plenty of people that start like you did and don't get much better than 25:00.

Better as in how, better genetics? I don't want to turn this into a genetics/training argument but curious.

I trained my ass off to go from a 19 minute 5k guy as a sophomore in high school to a consistent 16s guy as a senior. An eventual rival of mine from a nearby high school rarely trained in the off-season and was a consistent 16s guy from his freshman year on. Gotta choose your parents wisely!

If you aren't well over 6 foot you could be running a lot faster simply by losing weight. I was able to run pretty well as a youngster because my BMI at the time was under 19. Drop some muscle and your times will drop too.

If you don't have much experience with competitive sport, then I suggest that your problem may be as much with the mental aspect as the physical aspect. Those who had their competitive fire honed as youngsters in high school know how to compete and take advantage of their fitness.

You may be behind the curve a bit on this, simply because you didn't go through the same experiences they did as young people. It sounds to me like what you need is to learn how to race. To put it on the line.

It's kinda cheesy and 4:30 milerish to talk about the mental aspects, and since many of the folks on these boards came out of competitive high school and college programs, they will downplay the mental side of the sport.

But don't let this fool you. Ours is a tough sport; those who excel in it have a capacity for concentration and brutal suffering that seems normal and natural to them because they have practiced it from a young age.

I don't know if there are any tricks here, but it sounds like you started off slowly and did things right--you didn't push too hard so you've been able to stay healthy. Good work. But, now it's time to push. It's time to concentrate. It's time to approach the sport as a chance to prove to yourself how much guts you really have. Can you sustain the effort? Can you relax when you are deep in the hurt? Can you drive into the pain? Can you draw up the sludge from the bottom of the well?

These are the questions that separate us out, and really, they are the questions that keep us competing.

Good luck.

Great post.

I started training again as a 29-year old. When I was in my late teens and early 20's I could run about a 19 minute 5k. I started training again and am now down to a 16:22 5k at 34.

The secret, I got a coach. I had been running lots of mileage but they cut my mileage and adding some for-real structured progressive workouts instead of the ad-hoc stuff I was trying to do from books. When I started 800s were 3:50/km pace, 3 months later they were 3:15/km pace, 3 months later I was high 17s for 5k, a year later I was low 16s for 5k. Be patient and consistent too.

Probably overtraining for your level.

Start training and thinking like an 800 meter runner first.

You don't have to race or do grueling workouts but the base could serve you well.

ie for you have a virtual goal of breaking 2:24 for 800 meters what is 3.00 per kilometer. Then your talent will suddenly improve...

rule of 4 applied (for professional specialists it could be the rule of 3 or 8 (shorter distance runners))

50 300 meters 00 minutes 50 seconds

68 400 meters 01 minute 08 seconds

72 800 meters 02 minutes 24 seconds

76 1500 meters 04 minutes 45 seconds

80 3000 meters 10 minutes 00 seconds

84 5000 meters 17 minutes 30 seconds

88 10 000 meters 36 minutes 40 seconds

92 10 Miles 62 minutes 00 seconds

20 - 25 miles a week

Typical endurance run 25 minutes

Long run 50 minutes

strides 3 days a week start at a relaxed feeling like way to slow to be sprinting but work on form land on the ball of the foot and take short strides. Do 2 sets of 4 - 6 reps of anywhere between 60 - 150 meters.

Then add two track workouts:

Do a honest sprint around the track for 300 meters and now do this time say 55 seconds x 1.25 = 1.08 - 1.09 now do 3sprints of these with 100 meter walk and preparation for start position then rest a few minutes sit on the grass or whatever and do another three reps.

A week by then could be

monday 25 minute run (low heart rate) and drills

tuesday 50 minute long run (low heart rate)

wednesday strides + 2 x 3 x 300 + 25' jog / walk

thursday 25 minute run (low heart rate) and drills

friday 25 minute run (low heart rate) + strides

saturday 50 minute long run (low heart rate)

sunday strides + 2 x 3 x 300 + 25' jog / walk

This does not look like 5 kilometer training at all. But it will help lay a tremendous 'talent' base for 5 kilometer training later on. And you will most likely smash 20 minutes for 5 kilometers anyway on this program. I think with the 300's a sub 19 should be within the cards in months and that without any 5 kilometer specific training yet.

Every few weeks drop the pace of the 300s until you are doing them at your 300 meter old pb in a relaxed way.

Another tip is to run with heart rate monitor keep it at 130 - 150 bpm and if 150 feels heavy go 10 lower. But probably it will feel like it is to slow.

I'm a 38yo male, about 175 pounds, with no running experience in school or college. So I started running at 27-28 yo, and did nothing but 10-11 minute miles. I had no GPS watch and no awareness of my mpm, I was just trying to get my dog some exercise. So about 2 years later (I then weighed ~200 lbs) I decided to sign up for a marathon (6 months away) and in a month I ran my first 5K (22:42).

A year later, I will assume because of the base I built up in training for the marathon, I was running 20:30 5k times. Signed up for another marathon, built the base, and a year later was running 19:30 5k times (32 yrs old), where I'm still stuck to this day at 38 yrs old. I ran 3 more marathons, 1 a year after this, with my longer distance races still improving, but my 5k times still stuck, and mile times getting slower.

So, I was in the same boat as you 8 years ago. I recommend you just run more miles for 2-3 years, building your base up, before you add in any speed work (i.e., intervals).

What does a typical week of training look like for you?

I also like the post above about the mental aspect - great post.

I can certainly agree with the post about the mental aspects of the sport. I took up distance running just over a year ago a couple of weeks after my 30th birthday. I had never done any distance running before, but I did train for sprints and jumps aged 14-16, then again aged 19-24. As a 23.0 200m runner and 51.9 400m runner I lacked any kind of endurance and would frequently "die" at the end of races.

Fast forward to 2011 and my first run I couldn't go further than 1.5 miles withhout stopping and that was at a slow pace. I built up from there, went from jusst running a couple miles a day every day to now close to 50 miles per week. I ran 6 5ks in 2011, all of them flat out and went from 20:01 for the first one to 16:58 for the last one. I estimate I'm in 16:3X shape right about now, based on my mile times.

Every race I've done (not just the 5ks, but other races over other distances) I've had to seriously fight the urge to give in and to stop. Only when I get close to the end, say the 4k mark, will I dig in and run hard to the line. I'm pretty sure that my pace has tended to drop between 2 and 4k in each race and that with a better mental attiitude I could have ran quicker. Fact is, I know that I do this, but can't help myself. Blazing off too fast probably doesn't help, either. My target is to run 15:XX by the end of the year, but the fact that I know how much it's going to hurt is already making me feel nervous.

It's fairly likely that the OP isn't pushing himself hard enough. Maybe more hard running as a regular part of training?

Mental toughness somewhat grows out of good training. In a good training system there is a component of periodic hard running that not only prepares the body but also prepares the mind for harder running. High functioning runners tend not to think about the mental aspects of racing that much because the mental toughening has been occurring naturally as part of their training program. They get intimately familiar with the outer reaches of both their bodies and minds.

In a certain respect, they find that their minds have the capacity to outdo their bodies. That is, the limitations on performance tend to be more physical than mental for them because they are calloused to fatigue and realize that there is nothing to fear behind the big white curtain of pain.

Well said; that's exactly the point I was driving at.

Your story sounds almost exactly like mine, however I got down to 18:30 5k after getting to 3:10 marathon, at around 30. The things that worked for me (and honestly, if not for plantar fasciatis, I felt I was destined for much faster times) was dropping weight (from a muscular 5'10", 175lbs. down to 160lbs for racing) and being strategic with training. First of all, there is no substitute for mileage. I felt like mileage went a long way towards reducing "bad days" and also allowed me to sustain speedwork longer and faster. Secondly, you have to make yourself uncomfortable with training...just running a lot at a relaxed pace will only get you so far. I did not get too technical about it, but going to the track once a week to do 400 repeats and mile repeats was huge in terms of building speed.

Drop your weight.

Run your miles.

Do your speed work.

Keep a log.

Post a Weekly recap.

Study the sport.

Fix your diet.

Get a coach.

Do your drills.

I thought your point was on the money. I was just coming at it from a slightly different angle.

Our sport is not easy. But isn't that part of the fun?

lost in Boston wrote:Our sport is not easy. But isn't that part of the fun?

Absolutely. Except when it really sucks, ha.

unknown poster wrote:

You may be behind the curve a bit on this, simply because you didn't go through the same experiences they did as young people. It sounds to me like what you need is to learn how to race. To put it on the line.

Good luck.

I agree with this post. It does sound "4:30 milerish" to talk about the mental aspects, but when I talk to non-runner friends, I see how mental toughness does have a place in the conversation.

When I was that 4:30 miler in high school, I talked about mental toughness with regard to racing. And it is critical there for staying focused during a race. But another huge part of mental toughness that will cut minutes off your time rather than 30 seconds in a race, is the mental toughness you bring to training day in and day out.

I think this mental toughness is what experienced runners overlook. We talk about having to back off of workouts, needing a coach to tell us when to stop at 6 rather than 10.

However, for new runners, getting used to the discomfort of training required to improve threshold pace and VO2 max pace is a critical thing. And I think it is something that just takes time. You begin to see that you can maintain a particular pace and be uncomfortable at the same time. You have to look for this discomfort and embrace the fine line between holding a pace just below your limit and crashing.

I think this also come with more general strength. I think of some of my 6 by mile workouts and how uncomfortable they have felt in the past. In order to maintain that level of discomfort you have to have the strength to maintain form.

It all goes back to the lydiard pyramid of training from strength to threshold to speed