Jack Daniel's Running Formula

I used the Running Formula for this outdoor season (HS senior). I used a 13-week season from the 1500/3000 chapter, breaking the phases down as 2-4-4-3 and doing a maximum of 35 mi/week. I think the element that helped me the most was the tempo runs during the second phase since they helped my endurance a lot. Indoor times: 2:09, 4:41, 10:38. Outdoor: 2:04, 4:33, 9:53.

yeah i said this before on another thread

i did 10 mile run at the "mt" pace at 516-520pace which is vdot of 72ish i think. then i did some mile repeats at the "I" pace or close as possible at 4:40ish. and i did t pace miles as a secdondary workout at 5:05-5:10 as prescribed for vdot 72-73 on jack daniels training intensities. worked out for me. my PRs are pretty close on the line of 72vdot= 410, 820, 1420 i think. i dont have the book handy. hope that helps

Did you set these PRw while training under Jack Daniels plan? Judging from your response it seems that the answer would be, yes, but the only way to know for sure is to ask.

How good is this?! A running plan that allows me to incorporate drinker my favourite scotch, Jack Daniels!

My formula is to drink a bottle and then try to run

Only used it when training for the Boston Marathon. Led to a satisfying half marathon PR, and a tiny marathon PR (it was my 2nd one). I've had more success following Pfitzinger's programs, even though they have a fair bit in common. But I'm hugely sub-elite, and think JD's stuff is perhaps more tailored to the high-end runner.

Jack Daniels is not scottish; he's American. You might be thinking of the assistant coach, Johnnie Walker. He's Scottish.

If it's not Scottish, it's crrrrrap!

bump

xcrunner2,

yes I did. sorry for not clarifying. its pretty good for someone who trains with more emphasis on high quality and not too much volume. i was doing a max of 70 mpw on this system. It keeps the system hyped i think with the mile repeats at t pace and such. not a hard workout, just maintainance work.

anyone else have some more input on this subject?

thanks

the guy is a genius. this book is a GREAT tool for success among runners anywhere. some folks cut em for not coaching any world-class success, but they probably haven't read the book. I mean this guy has a PhD! anyone looking to achieve success(runners/coaches) should definently follow this program . it helps you realize the importance of quality workouts and he includes his info. on all of the running/systems of your body. he's definently the new guru of U.S. distance running.

I used it with a lot of success my senior year of high school (starting right after a disappointing cross season). I did a 6 month program, but it was modified slightly (even more emphasis on tempo runs, and didn't really have a long period of just easy miles, cause I had that from the xc season). I went from a base level of fitness in xc and started doing easy tempo runs and higher mileage and stayed that way for a couple months. It worked really well for me.

A few things:

1. If you're not accustomed to doing tempo runs or tempo intervals, I find the cruise intervals are good. I had never done a tempo run until my senior year, and I couldn't handle 5-6 miles at a time, I guess. Also, if you've never focused on tempo runs before, you might find that the paces he lists are a bit too fast. If it says to go 5:40, I usually went 5:50 or so for 5 or 6xmile with 1 minute jogging rest.

2. For some people the "Easy aerobic pace" for easy/long runs are too fast. I have often been told that that pace is more of a "speed limit" not a goal pace. So if it says to run 7:05 for your easy/long runs, you are not allowed to run faster than that (cause you wont be going easy), but you can run slower (within reason....don't go 9:00 minutes per mile unless you are really fried or something).

3. Although I was training for 3200m mostly, I still did the MP workouts. Some weeks I would do two tempo workouts (in my "Base" phase). Other weeks I would do one tempo workout and one MP workout (cause they are kinda similar but easier). I liked doing 1 mile at MP pace, then one mile at easy pace, repeated 3 times (or 1.5 miles at MP pace and 1 mile at easy, etc, you get the idea). No rests.

Is it true that Stanford more or less uses his system?

I have used the JD Trainig plan for several years. I am a high school cross country and track coach. I have opinions on this system on several levels. I as a coach really like the organization that the system gives you. It is flexible, but organized. For XC I use 6-3-6-6 week phases. Obviously this includes summer running.

Phase 1 - simple easy runs with developing longer runs in the second half of the phase. I also include striders in the second half of the phase.

Phase 2 - continue with the easy runs. Add a once weekly Tempo run. Continue increasing weekly mileage.

Phase 3 - start with the "three" workouts during the week, mixed in with easy runs and the once weekly long run. Here is where I disagree with Daniels...I continue to increase mileage through this phase, peaking at about week 3 or 4 of the phase...depending on meet schedule, then maintain mileage for the rest of the phase.

Phase 4 - Reducing mileage and increasing intensity. Focusing on meets. Tapering.

I have noticed that athletes have a tendency to "plateau" at the end of phase 3 and the beginning of phase 4. But the athletes drop times as the tapering take effect. For example I had a female runner, that "plateaued" at 5:10 -5:15 in the 1600, when the tapering took effect, she dropped down to a 5:04.

My critism of the system is that the intensity is not at the level that I would like. Especially in XC. I used Vigil's table for tempo runs to increase the intensities in phase 4.

Woah. The intensity is not what you would have liked? It seems to me that the biggest problem in high school running is an overemphasis on intensity and an underemphasis on mileage. The best things about Daniels' program are the threshhold and interval paces. They are very accurate, and provide the needed physiological effect without taxing the body unnecessarily. As Daniels explains in his book, going faster will give you no greater physiological benefit, but will increase injury and overtraining risk.

Let me explain - In XC, because of the different levels of difficulty in various courses - a 19:00 on a flat course is not the same as 19:00 on a hilly course. As our season progresses we get on some very difficult course, thus our times are not progressing. Using his tables, our runners are doing Tempos and Intervals at the same pace. With running two meets a week, it is very difficult to test for the VDOT, so I use the time to determine VDOTs. All I do is bump the runners up a level or two on the charts to make the workouts progressive.

I have no problems with using his tables during track. A track is flat and the are all relatively the same. So progression in runners times are obvious and the tables and intensities are perfect!

Let me explain - In cross country course varying in difficulty due to the terrain. It is difficult to test for VDOTs while you are racing two times a week, therefore I use best times of the season for VDOTs. As our season progresses, we run on some extremely difficult courses, so our runners times are not improving. Therefore the runners stay at the same VDOT, there is no progression. What I do, is simply bump up there times for the workouts a level as the season progresses.

In track, his intensities are right on. I actually use them to predict...for myself...kids times in races.

Let me explain - In cross country course varying in difficulty due to the terrain. It is difficult to test for VDOTs while you are racing two times a week, therefore I use best times of the season for VDOTs. As our season progresses, we run on some extremely difficult courses, so our runners times are not improving. Therefore the runners stay at the same VDOT, there is no progression. What I do, is simply bump up there times for the workouts a level as the season progresses.

In track, his intensities are right on. I actually use them to predict...for myself...kids times in races.

Sorry for misunderstanding. That seems like a logical idea.