Elite Prize Purse Correlation to Quality of Athletes

The prize purse seems similar to the purses the Competitor group uses for their Rock n'Roll marathon series. You could probably get a good idea by looking at the typical sub-elite field field at any of the Rock n'Roll races that didn't pay some elite a large appearance fee to come do a workout and win easily.

Best of luck to you, sir.

Thanks, I appreciate the response.

Surprisingly, our overall M&F winners were the same as SA R&R last year and our prize purse was only $500, $300, $200.

For men, Winning time would likely be around 2:25-2:30 ... With 2nd and 33rd both within 5 minutes. It's possible you'd have a low 2:20 guy show up, and a small chance a sub 2:20 guy.

For women... I'd say 2:45-2:50 would be a winning time

Okay, thanks.

I was hoping for all three men under 2:30 with that kind of money. As I said above, we did $500, $300, and $200 last year and our male winner went 2:29, followed by 2:34 and then 2:44.

Our females were even closer with 2:47, 2:50, 2:52, 2:54, and 2:57 rounding out the top five.

If you were in New England I think you would get a bunch of 2:21-2:28 guys. It seems like most of the guys in the OTQ range focus on a bigger race with the hopes of having a great day on a bigger stage and more top guys to run with, but your prizes would get just about everybody else to run.

Okay, so you think it's an issue of not enough fast runners in close proximity? Having to fly in obviously makes the prize purse less attractive for athletes from out of state.

Where is your race and when is it? Also, what do you consider "elite" in order to get free entry, hotel and pasta.

I've ran under 2:29 before, but it was a solo effort in a race I led from start to finish and won by 5 minutes... This year, I'm looking to run 2:24 and depending on the timing and location, I'd consider your race.

Have you asked fellow Texan marathon race directors for advice or just had someone compile a list of the prize purses for the top ten richest marathons in Texas?

I don't see much happening for your $5,000 payout.

You'll get a third tier Kenyan man jogging 2:25 and an Ethiopian woman who can run 2:38 to 2:42 depending if she has any company beside the escort bicycle. Promotion-wise it will be a failure because neither will make compelling interview subjects pre- or post-marathon. Local print and TV reporters will have trouble translating their answers...

"I feel very good", "I try to run fast". No, not a xenophobe, I've just seen it in dozens and dozens of races.

Doubtful an American post-collegiate will want to run for less than $100.00 a mile and if they thought they might go sub 2:20 or sub 2:40 and find 2 or 3 international runners with them or ahead of them at half will simply drop out.

There is easier money running two 10k's in a month and earning $1,000.00 to $1,200.00 by running 30 or 31 minutes for men or 34 or 35 for women. The marathon wipes you out and they wouldn't be able to race again for another month.

The comp entry is a given, they will arrive Friday night and leave Sunday afternoon and most likely will lay low and not attend your pasta meal less than 12 hours before the race.

Try to find more local sponsors because your 5 to 6 thousand prize purse won't really attract those runners that you think you want to attract.

Race is the BCS Marathon and will be December 9, 2012.

Money Runner -

I think you are being difficult on purpose, but I will respond anyway.

I have a list of the prize money other races offer. We would be the 4th highest marathon in Texas behind Houston, Dallas, and the Woodlands.

I think the rest of your stuff is kind of silly.

You're right...

when I said "The marathon wipes you out and they wouldn't be able to race again for another month."

That's just plain silly, unless you are Mary Akor and like

running 6 to 9 marathons in a calendar year, but most Americans will run 2, 3...maybe as many a 4 marathons in a year which will earn them a grand total of $5,000.00! They will not be back in racing form (and earning money shape for sometimes 2 or 3 months).

These post-collegiates are trying to make a living and they won't do it trying to race for $1,250 after months of preparation and then find themselves being out of competition for a month + afterwards.

Like I said, I have seen it in dozens and dozens of races.

How many years, decades and dozens and dozens of prize money races have you been involved in as both a competitor and organizer?

Go to RRM.com for a list of agents who can get you Kenyans and Ethiopians like the ones I described.

Money Runner -

I stand corrected. That part of your post was correct.

I just thought you went a little too far on the rest to say africans would come to "jog" the race and then not be able to speak English in the post race interviews. It seemed a bit over the top although I do get your point.

Thanks for the rrm link.

tough to compete when Ft. Worth and San Antonio

run the month before and you share the same

month with Dallas White Rock and then Chevron Houston

follows in January.

Also I misspoke when talking of the young American post-collegiates racing a max. of four marathons and earning $5,000.00 for their efforts. Actually there are no sure things or done deals. Too many have shown up thinking that $1,250.00 first place prize was theirs and then along comes a hungry international runner who can beat their 2:25 or 2:29 effort. If they run 4 marathons in a year they have a "chance" to earn $5,000.00.

And yes I have seen Kenyans go out running 1:10 for the first half (5:20 per mile pace) and then realizing they are five minutes (or more) ahead of second place jog it home in 1:15 (5:43 per mile pace) or slower. Hence the plethora of

Kenyans who can run 2:25 to 2:29.

I think that the OP should be commended for being interested in expanding his race to competitive runners and for offering prize money. I wish more RDs would take this example.

If I didn't have to fly, and thought I had a chance to win with 2:25, I'd run your race for sure. I'd imagine that the first year, you'll get a couple of guys from your area who might run around 2:25, and if your race is well organized and people speak well of it, the following year you'll begin to develop a little more depth.

The comp entry is a given, they will arrive Friday night and leave Sunday afternoon and most likely will lay low and not attend your pasta meal less than 12 hours before the race.

[/quote]

I couldn't agree more about the pasta dinner. Races could save so much money if they just realized that the runners want to get their own food the night before. I've been to a number of races where the runners went to the dinners out of respect for the organizers, but then ate a meal that they are much more comfortable with later that night. Many athletes are vegan or gluten intolerant and I can say with confidence that athletes would MUCH rather get $15 per diem for a meal than have to sit through another crappy pasta dinner. And yes, they are always crappy.

My suggestion to the OP is to personally reach out to some of the faster runners in your area, or anyone within a reasonable distance. Even if they do not run this year they will appreciate the offer and take notice that you made an effort. It could pay off big for the future. You are correct that few people would fly to your race with that type of prize purse.

Thanks for the helpful replies. I do appreciate it.

To be clear, I am a runner who directs a marathon, so I am very passionate about giving back to the sport in this way.

As stated above (but possibly lost in the details), our purse was just 500, 300, and 200 this past year and that got us a 2:29, 2:34, 2:44 male finish and a 2:47, 2:50, 2:52 female. I was hoping that tripling our purse might bring the top 3 men under 2:35 with the winner under 2:25. For the women, I was hoping for top 3 under 2:45 with the winner around 2:40. But that might be wishful thinking, I know.

last bump to see if anyone else wants to chime in. Thanks again for the help so far.

Race director wrote:

Thanks for the helpful replies. I do appreciate it.

To be clear, I am a runner who directs a marathon, so I am very passionate about giving back to the sport in this way.

As stated above (but possibly lost in the details), our purse was just 500, 300, and 200 this past year and that got us a 2:29, 2:34, 2:44 male finish and a 2:47, 2:50, 2:52 female. I was hoping that tripling our purse might bring the top 3 men under 2:35 with the winner under 2:25. For the women, I was hoping for top 3 under 2:45 with the winner around 2:40. But that might be wishful thinking, I know.

RD, if you really wanted to give back to the sport you would stage a 10K, not a marathon.

Name ONE quality 10K in Texas....name one.

Not trying to be rude, just sharing my opinion.

I run for Marathonguide.com-- we're a group of fast, prolific marathoners, mostly Americans. We're great ambassadors for the sport and embrace the full experience. I always do the pasta dinner the night before and love meeting the other racers. The timing of your race is very good for getting someone from our group to come run your race. The biggest issue is travel-- with your prize purse, it's going to be difficult getting quality Americans down there. You're going to be limited to local/state-level runners, and as someone else pointed out, it will be difficult attracting them when you're sandwiched between Dallas White Rock and Houston (plus CIM on West coast). You might get some of the Africans who train in Mexico/Georgia/Albuquerque.

I recently went through the entire MG.com calendar and knew about your race. We have a few databases linked to various stats. Here's my thoughts about your questions-- Looks like you had an exceptionally better women's field this year than men's, which I'm guessing was because there were some local women going for a last minute B OT qualifier (deadline being Dec. 11th). You were very lucky to get a 2:47 woman running for $500. If you bump the purse up to $1250, judging by most other races with a similar purse and winning times, you can expect a male winner around mid-2:20s and female winner around +25-30 min. slower. If you have better women talent in your area (as evidenced by the recent results), this might skew the difference. For your bonus offer to be 'equal', 2:20 for a man equates to around 2:45 for a woman. Even with the bonus, I'd be surprised if you got sub 2:20/2:45 talent because of the other faster/more lucrative races around that time and in the area. You'd have to have a purse around $2000-3000 to get 2:20/2:45 talent or faster. Since next year is not an OT qualifying year, you might get some American talent/local talent who would rather run for money instead of travel somewhere for a fast time.

I'd suggest recruiting local/state-wide talent. If you want to recruit outside the area, use the bonus to pay for the travel of a few individuals. I think it's always fun when a race gives a "gift" on top of the prize money-- if you can get added sponsorship to increase the prize purse, maybe you could reach out to a business and give away something unique to the winners.

I second the guy above suggesting doing a 10K or HM instead of a marathon, or even something like a 5K/8K/15K. You could market the race as a prep race for Houston. People like to run 'odd distances' cause it's usually a guaranteed PR. Your prize purse would be more in line with getting quality talent for a shorter event.