difference in sprint training and fast relaxed striding

"Striding" just means to run at less than maximal speed, such as running 100m in 15 seconds when your PR is 13 seconds. Not sure how much benefit it provides, if any.

so the sprint training should be all-out?? because I thought lydiard was totally against all out especially in this phase as it tears down aerobic capacity/potential?

thanks for the reply. and sure i would think striding at 5k pace would help build up your lactate threshold, train you neromuscular system, increase vo2max slightly etc.

johnt wrote:

so the sprint training should be all-out?? because I thought lydiard was totally against all out especially in this phase as it tears down aerobic capacity/potential?

I'm a little rusty on my lydiard knowledge, but perhaps he only means "all out" on aerobic systems like 800m+. Aka things that require a time of recovery that will take away time that could have been spent building your base.

I consider a stride to be ~10% the distance of the race of the pace. Aka if you can do a 4:00 1600, then 100m in 15 seconds is a stride for that. If you can do a 15:00 5k, then 500m at that pace will be a stride. And your repetitions should add to a total of 50-100% of the race distance

So, strides should induce no pain or fatigue. Sprint training doesn't have to be "all-out" either. If it's "all-out", then you can only do 1 rep, right? Simplified, sprint training just means to do some near sprint speed reps with at least 4-6 minutes worth of rest in between. But remember, sprinting isn't about running tired. It's about running on fresh legs so don't feel pressured that you have to jog in between reps or something. You're ruining point the workout if you do that.

thanks

In Running to the Top sprint training is described as the following.

Use about 100m with the wind, if any, and use this sequence, each one twice, after warm-up.

1. With slow forward momentum, raise the knees high and fast alternately in a running action so the quadriceps start to feel tired. Do what you feel you can; jog easily back and repeat.

2.With high knee lift, long striding action with the arms being forced through and driving hard off the back foot. Do 100m twice with good recovery interval.

3.Running tall exercise, keeping high on the toes, lifting the knees high and stretching the body upwards, trying to lift the torso from the pelvis. 100m twice with recovery. The running should not be too fast.

4.Try to combine the three exercises and run the 100m twice, as fast and relaxed as you can. After these exercises, run up to six laps, using one straight to run fast and relaxed with 300m jogging interval.

Fast relaxed striding is described as...

It is important to try to relax during races and training by running varying distance from 100m to 300m, Keeping the upper body relaxed and concentrating on running with a good technique will help you to run faster times without being basically fitter.

johnt wrote:

and sure i would think striding at 5k pace would help build up your lactate threshold, train you neromuscular system, increase vo2max slightly etc.

why on Earth would you think that? That's like saying running up a 100m hill will train you to climb Everest.

Slightly different systems at work, there, guy.

froze wrote:

johnt wrote:

and sure i would think striding at 5k pace would help build up your lactate threshold, train you neromuscular system, increase vo2max slightly etc.

why on Earth would you think that? That's like saying running up a 100m hill will train you to climb Everest.

Slightly different systems at work, there, guy.

Which part of his statement do you disagree with?

I don't think 60m - 100m at 5K pace would do much of anything.

But what do I know?

Just sayin dude wrote:

froze wrote:

why on Earth would you think that? That's like saying running up a 100m hill will train you to climb Everest.

Slightly different systems at work, there, guy.

Which part of his statement do you disagree with?

all of it.

strides don't build up your lt, they don't train the nm system, and they don't increase vo2 max.

how could they do any of that? in all seriousness, i'd love an explanation.

to Randy:

in my experience, the length of the stride rep should correlate with the length of the race that matches that pace. example: for a 5k stride, i'd do reps between 300m and 1200m for a total of 2500m-5000m.

100m would work to, but you'd be doing a crap ton of them. like 20+.

to froze:

just about any fast running you do will engage your lt and vo2 max.

they will also help your running through nm system improvements It's the principle of specificity. the more you practice something, the better you will get at it. It's proven even in psychology research. It's how powerlifters get stronger without getting bigger.

Just sayin dude wrote:

to Randy:

in my experience, the length of the stride rep should correlate with the length of the race that matches that pace. example: for a 5k stride, i'd do reps between 300m and 1200m for a total of 2500m-5000m.

I wouldn't call those strides. I'd call that interval training.

I use the term strides interchangeably with strideouts, windsprints and striders i.e 10-20 second fast pickups.

Strides

You're probably familiar with "Strides" though you may call them windsprints, pickups, striders or stride outs.

They last only 50-200m because unlike the anaerobic capacity intervals, we don't want lactic acid to build up during each stride.

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/articlePages/page/21

Randy Oldman wrote:

I wouldn't call those strides. I'd call that interval training.

I use the term strides interchangeably with strideouts, windsprints and striders i.e 10-20 second fast pickups.

ah, with full/long enough rest they are not "intervals"

Just sayin dude wrote:

to froze:

just about any fast running you do will engage your lt and vo2 max.

they will also help your running through nm system improvements It's the principle of specificity. the more you practice something, the better you will get at it. It's proven even in psychology research. It's how powerlifters get stronger without getting bigger.

again, that's ridiculous. Again, that's like saying running up a 100m hill will prepare you for Everest.

strides do nothing more than get you moving a bit faster. No real benefit to LT (that's why we do tempos and intervals, things lasting more than 20 seconds), no real benefit to VO2max (that's why we do intervals), and no real benefit to nm system (not engaging enough muscles to stress it as opposed to something like all out hill sprints).

and no, that's NOT the principle of specificity. the principle of specificity would involve speeds AND distances/volume.

like i said, what you're saying is akin to comparing running up a hill to preparing for Everest. you're completely ignoring race specificity and the training aspects that would improve one's ability to race at specific speeds and distances in alleging that strides do any of the things you mentioned above.

Just sayin dude wrote:

Randy Oldman wrote:

I wouldn't call those strides. I'd call that interval training.

I use the term strides interchangeably with strideouts, windsprints and striders i.e 10-20 second fast pickups.

ah, with full/long enough rest they are not "intervals"

this confirms that you don't have a clue what an interval is... or a stride.

thanks for clearing that up.

What I consider strides don't have to be less than 20 seconds. I'm pretty sure I explained that in at least one post.

I didn't say that they'd have more benefit than tempos, speed intervals, or other nm training. Strides are just part of that extra 1% that will help you.

I'm not ignoring anything. I didn't say to do strides instead of tempos, intervals, etc. And from my experience, strides work magically. It's a great way to add more mileage at a pace without tiring yourself out.

Works for me every time. (14:30 guy here on less than 30 mpw)

Just sayin dude wrote:

again, that's ridiculous. Again, that's like saying running up a 100m hill will prepare you for Everest.

No, it's not. I said that you need to do an appreciable amount of the total goal distance. Something around 50%-100% but with plenty of rest.

Keep in mind this Lydiard's schedule for a sprinter (100, 200 meters). The sprint training refers to starts, drills, short (50 meter) repeats, relay work, plyometrics, harness running, etc.

The strides are relaxed and probably done at 400 to 800 meter pace.

Repetitions would be your intervals of 100 to 300 meters in distance with walk back recovery.

VO2 max development is only important to allow the sprinter to handle the overall volume of work, but is not a priority in sprint training since the event is anaerobic.

Btw I do have a copy of Running the Lydiard Way with his schedules for sprinters to marathoners in the back of that book.

Just sayin dude wrote:

Just sayin dude wrote:

again, that's ridiculous. Again, that's like saying running up a 100m hill will prepare you for Everest.

No, it's not. I said that you need to do an appreciable amount of the total goal distance. Something around 50%-100% but with plenty of rest.

again, it's obvious you don't know what constitutes and interval or a stride.

you can be ignorant of that if you'd like, but it's a bit silly to comment on it when you obviously don't know what you're talking about.