I've seen a lot of threads on here bashing slow runners, but at the same time I get the sense that a lot of people on here want the sport to be more popular and respected. How do you square that circle?
I've seen a lot of threads on here bashing slow runners, but at the same time I get the sense that a lot of people on here want the sport to be more popular and respected. How do you square that circle?
Most hobby joggers (me included) aren't fans of the sport (me excluded).
Most letsrunners are only marginally better than most hobbyjoggers, and thus see them as a threat.
Letsrunners see hobby joggers as having changed running from a sport that is based on acheivement (fast times, placing at races) to a social activity that is focused on experience (bucket list, life accomplishment). Race organizers, like Competitor, have seized on this market and put the focus on having bands on every mile, rock concerts at night, and other "experience" elements over putting out good prize money and having opportunities for elite runners, except for non-competitive, well paid time trials for top US runners (Ryan Hall, Shalane, Kara, etc.). People on letsrun correctly see many hobby joggers as being illiterate about the sport they participate in. So, it is not necessarily good for the sport that everyone participates when those participants don't care about the sport. Just look at ball room dancing. Everyone watches the TV show. But the real sport of ball room dancing has not seen much benefit. Their events are rarely televised and recieve almost no other media attention.
Your question is basically "why are Letsrunners idiots?"
To which we'll probably never have a good answer.
den bosch wrote:
Your question is basically "why are Letsrunners idiots?"
To which we'll probably never have a good answer.
Actually, the question has an implicit assumption that Letsrunners are a fairly uniform bunch. The reality is quite different.
Along with a whole host of other subspecies of Letsrunner there is one which wants running to be more popular and an entirely different subspecies which hates hobby joggers.
The question as posed is somewhat akin to the question, "Why do Americans want religion to be more popular but hate religious folks?"
Two different subspecies.
In my opinion, hobbyjoggers are a big reason why running isnt more popular. When people see these guys covered head to toe in their ridiculous and useless accessories churning out 9 minute miles, they tend to look at running as a fitness activity for the weird rather than a legitimate sport. Now that's all people associate with running- if you tell somebody you ran a marathon, they don't care about your time and place, they just see the act of finishing as the ultimate goal, whether you ran 2:30 or 5:30.
Hobbyjoggers, because of the huge amount of time they take to complete races, have also driven up the prices for many of these events, which may also turn people off of running competitively. It's just hard to make the average guy think running is cool when his overweight neighbor is out there jogging around in his Vibrams and fuel belt.
The reality is that everyone from about 15 minute 5ks or 2:20 marathons and worse is a hobby jobber in any practical sense. Hobby = something you do for fun, not for a scholarship or any other real pay.
The truth is there is a huge gap between someone like Oprah (or countless others) who runs one marathon in 4:30 and a dedicated runner who strives for years to take a minute or two off their 5K or qualify for Boston. Both are hobbyjoggers, though.
I think what Letsrunners struggle with is that most people who don't run don't know the difference between the Oprah version of hobbyjogger and the typical letsrunner who is probably somewhere between a serious but slow recreational runner (like me, ~20 min 5K old dude) and an elite runner. Most people who don't run think all marathon finishers are either heros or nuts and don't know the difference between a 17, 20, 30, or 40 minute 5k. That seems to drive letsrunners crazy.
Running, track and field is the 15th most popular sport in America, its even behind badminton. This makes all the letsrunners upset because their sport ranks so low on the depth charts. Eventually they will get over it and realize there is more to life than running and obsessing over workouts.
stuck with match.com wrote:
Running, track and field is the 15th most popular sport in America, its even behind badminton. This makes all the letsrunners upset because their sport ranks so low on the depth charts. Eventually they will get over it and realize there is more to life than running and obsessing over workouts.
You! This isnt the first stupid post ive seen by you. I have no idea why you even go on this website. Every single one of your posts has shown that you posess about 6 brain cells. I really hope youve considered jumping in front of a bus because Letsrun would appreciate it!
Sincerely Everyone on Letsrun
The top 10 participatory sports for boys: Eleven-player football led the way with 1,108,441, followed by outdoor track and field (579,302), basketball (545,844), baseball (471,025), soccer (398,351), wrestling (273,732), cross country (246,948), tennis (161,367), golf (156,866) and swimming and diving (133,900).
Outdoor track and field was the top sport for girls again last year with 475,265 participants, followed by basketball (438,933), volleyball (409,332), fast-pitch softball (373,535), soccer (361,556), cross country (204,653), tennis (182,074), swimming and diving (160,881), competitive spirit squads (96,718) and lacrosse (74,927)...From NFHS Survey
Though, these numbers do not reflect what we watch on TV at the college and professional level.
rp wrote:
Most hobby joggers (me included) aren't fans of the sport (me excluded).
this really is it. Hobby joggers aren't watching races on tv or online. Can't tell you who won the race they ran and don't care that running isn't mentioned in the paper along with other sports.
Think "Golf". Golf is the closest thing to road racing in terms of hobbiest vs pros.
Yeah but.... wrote:
The reality is that everyone from about 15 minute 5ks or 2:20 marathons and worse is a hobby jobber in any practical sense. Hobby = something you do for fun, not for a scholarship or any other real pay.
The truth is there is a huge gap between someone like Oprah (or countless others) who runs one marathon in 4:30 and a dedicated runner who strives for years to take a minute or two off their 5K or qualify for Boston. Both are hobbyjoggers, though.
I think what Letsrunners struggle with is that most people who don't run don't know the difference between the Oprah version of hobbyjogger and the typical letsrunner who is probably somewhere between a serious but slow recreational runner (like me, ~20 min 5K old dude) and an elite runner. Most people who don't run think all marathon finishers are either heros or nuts and don't know the difference between a 17, 20, 30, or 40 minute 5k. That seems to drive letsrunners crazy.
This. Great, thoughtful response.
fun runner wrote:
rp wrote:Most hobby joggers (me included) aren't fans of the sport (me excluded).
this really is it. Hobby joggers aren't watching races on tv or online. Can't tell you who won the race they ran and don't care that running isn't mentioned in the paper along with other sports.
And yet, when one of our own, a tremendous track athlete, and by all accounts a lovely person, makes the cover of a mainstream periodical (Outside Magazine), the "fans of the sport" here on Letsrun tear her apart with misogynist vitriol and disrespect.
Nice job guys. Bet our female elites are lining up to get treated like Lolo. The men posting on that thread need to go crawl in a hole.
youre a moron wrote:
stuck with match.com wrote:Running, track and field is the 15th most popular sport in America, its even behind badminton. This makes all the letsrunners upset because their sport ranks so low on the depth charts. Eventually they will get over it and realize there is more to life than running and obsessing over workouts.
You! This isnt the first stupid post ive seen by you. I have no idea why you even go on this website. Every single one of your posts has shown that you posess about 6 brain cells. I really hope youve considered jumping in front of a bus because Letsrun would appreciate it!
Sincerely Everyone on Letsrun
Really please tell me what was so stupid about my post
http://www.mostpopularsports.net/in-united-states-of-americaRunning - 15
The person who posted the high school participation in numbers is a fvckin idiot. Track and field would be higher since there are no roster restrictions like the other sports and most basketball/football/soccer/lacrosse/hockey coaches make their players run track to stay in shape. The ignorance on here never ceases to amaze me. You are typical cheerleader or running on here with no reality of what goes on in the real world. As soon as you can get it through your tiny little brain that running is and always be a sport that nobody cares about except for every 4 years the quicker all of us can get on to happier lives. I am tired of how disillusioned people on here. One of Styx's best songs and perhaps best song in all of rock n roll is the Grand Illusion from their Grand Illusion album in 1977. You guys to me are living in one big giant grand illusion. you go around saying YAYAYAYAY running is so popular, you go for runs in your tiny little shorts and think you're cool when people driving by in cars thinks your freaking idiots. I go running in basketball shorts and nobody laughs at me from their car. You eat healthy because if you do 78 minutes on your 10 mile long run thats too slow compared to the 77:30 you would have run had you not eaten healthy. This kind of obsession is really sickening and needs to be taken care of.
thats all i have to say.
I will admit, stuck with match.com is not renowned for his intelligent or helpful, or nice posts. But in this case, he is dead right.
It's kind of funny because letsrunners criticise hobby joggers (who I, by the way, don't have a problem with) but unless you are getting your entries paid for and are afforded the luxury of toeing the elite starting line, you are the same as a hobby jogger. When the elites look behind them, they don't notice that you can run a 50 min 10 mile or if you run a 90 min 10 mile, all they notice is that you aren't on the same starting line with them.
If runners were not such snobs to other runners, our sport would me much more popular.
Option no. 2 wrote:
If runners were not such snobs to other runners, our sport would me much more popular.
Go to any other running forum online and you'll see that most faster runners don't act this way toward other runners. I would post links but I don't want those places ruined too, just wanted to let you know that Letsrun is not the center of the running universe.
Yes. I have noticed that in the past. Some runners have too much of their self worth tied to running fast. Really nobody cares about any of this. Most people don't even know that once around the track is about a quarter of a mile.
Just do it for fun and as a personal challenge. I am now 42 and I want to see if I can run under 16 for 5000. Probably most likely won't get there for sure but I actually enjoy running for the first time in my life.
Even the absolute elite of elites get forgotten very fast. When is the last time you heard the name N. Moreceli? Lynn Jennings, Arturo Barrios,...
Okay so I understand that doing something for enjoyment makes it a hobby, but you left out the second part of the term "hobbyjoggers." I wouldn't exactly consider a 15 minute 5k or 2:20 marathon a "jog." I'd say most on this site would classify themselves as hobbyrunners, hobbyracers, or maybe hobbycompetitors....but not hobbyjoggers. That's if you're going o refer to it in the literal sense, not in the underlying meaning that it's someone who doesn't see running as a sport that is worth following even though they see their recent 5k, 10k, marathon, etc finish as a major accomplishment.
There are people who enter these races that probably can't even name a 1 or 2 of the top distance runners in the world or even te US, I think that makes people on here a little mad. Although, as a fairly avid bowler, I know most people who go bowling couldn't name a single pro...which doesn't bother me much so I guess I can't complain about the lack of pro running knowledge thing. It doesn't help running as a sport even though it helps running as an activity.