LetsRun: Train me for a 50 miler

Marathon style with a slightly longer long run.

So the everyday mileage apart from the long run shouldn't be any higher?

every day mileage should be lower. push out the length of your long run. also do something along the lines of this on the weekend.

run long on saturday afternoon, follow up with another long run on sunday morning

Gradually transition so that you are running long on saturday morning and saturday afternoon, toward the end you should do this with ~ 90 min to 2 hours "rest" between your runs.

also, possibly on alternating weeks, extend the length of your single long run.

Week 1 sat am / sun pm long runs

week 2 sat or sun - single long run

week 3 sat pm / sun am long runs

week 4 sat or sun - single long run

week 5 sat am / sat pm long runs large time between runs

week 6 sat or sun - single long run

week 7 sat am, sat pm long runs ... less time between runs ...

If you were doing say 2 back to back 20 milers on the same day, shoot for 30 - 35 miles on a weekend where you only do a single long run.

remember to rest a lot during the week, the goal is to run long on the weekend. some people dont get this and end up not fully recovered by the time of their next long run(s). also, instead of mileage, think of time on your feet.

Thanks. I was wondering, do you think that I should run the 50 mile distance at least one time before the race or is their really no benefit to this? Granted I have til next November to build up to this.

25-35 miles a day, gerry lindgren style

notawalker wrote:

Thanks. I was wondering, do you think that I should run the 50 mile distance at least one time before the race or is their really no benefit to this? Granted I have til next November to build up to this.

Generally, your first time around, no matter your level of fitness, 50 miles is going to be tough. You can definitely get to the level you need to be to race it the first time around, but I would cap your training runs around 40 miles just so you're not killing your legs out there in training. In the future, you can hit 50 mile trainers, but I wouldn't do it the first time around or you're going to have a chance of burning out. If you want to be competitive in a race like JFK, you will still have to focus largely on tempo runs, similar to marathon training, but your overall mileage and long runs will have to come up. If you haven't done a marathon before, this will be tough, but if your main focus for the year is JFK, you have the time. The competitive people in races like this mainly fall into two categories: 1. mid-30s to early-40s guys with MANY years of big races and miles under their belt that focus mainly on tempo/strength type running and don't run as many miles anymore thanks to their incredible lifetime base (think Karl Meltzer or Dave Mackey), and 2. younger guys (such as yourself) that still have decent speed without training it too hard but run incredible mileage week in and week out, with good hard runs mixed in, but more focus on big miles (think Anton Krupicka or Zach Gingerich). If you want to be competitive, you're likely going to need a lot of 110+ mile weeks strung together and you're going to need to train a lot of your long runs on heavily fatigued legs. The training can become a chore, but if you really have the mindset to do well in these races, you'll be able to get through it.

notawalker wrote:

I need to run something like a sub 3 hour marathon to get into the first round of entries for JFK so that's kind of my immediate race goal but I don't know if I should train specifically marathon style for that or if it should be just another checkpoint in my 50k training. Either way I have quite a while to prepare for this thing so I'm not in a huge rush but I definitely want to be ready to actually compete and see how high I can place.

I'd first train seriously for the marathon, and see how well you can run that. The extension to running 50 miles is not that much different. Mileage can be the same, 75-100 miles a week. You could probably run a fast 50 with marathon training and nothing different, or do a longer fast run every 3 weeks or so, and 3 weeks out from the 50 mile race.

back to back long runs. normal running through week(marathon training type workouts), I won't detail runs or workouts, hopefully you have them or a coach of some sort. But on Saturday and Sunday do back to back 20's. Not doubles- 20's. ALWAYS close your last 2 miles faster than the rest.

J.R. wrote:I'd first train seriously for the marathon, and see how well you can run that.

This is probably smart.

J.R. wrote:

The extension to running 50 miles is not that much different. Mileage can be the same, 75-100 miles a week. You could probably run a fast 50 with marathon training and nothing different, or do a longer fast run every 3 weeks or so, and 3 weeks out from the 50 mile race.

The extension to running 50 miles is not that much different. The extension to RACING 50 miles, however, definitely requires quite a bit more miles. The last time I tried to race 50 miles on roads off of generic marathon training (racing at about a minute/mile slower than my marathon pace), I tanked pretty hard in the mid 30s, struggled mightily in the last 15 miles, had to dig deep just to finish at well off my pace, and ended up stress fracturing my 2nd right metatarsal. 50 miles isn't too far to keep everything under control with adequate training, but without it, you're in trouble.

Raptured wrote:

The extension to running 50 miles is not that much different. The extension to RACING 50 miles, however, definitely requires quite a bit more miles.

Perhaps this depends on the individual and the type of training that is done. I never had any problem running ultras off of marathon training, ran reasonably close to marathon pace, and didn't run over 17 miles continuous at one time in training for them.

My coaches (Jim and Joel Pearson) train Ultra Runners. You should get in contact with them ASAP. (joel@coachpearson.com)

Jim was the former American 50 mile record holder (5:12:40) with a ton of other accolades in the 50k and 100k. He has more knowledge on Ultra Running than anyone.

Some Ultra runners they have coached:

Oliver Bear Don't Walk set the American Junior 50k Track Record in 3:10:07 (6:07 pace). He was a 11:09 3200 meter runner 18 months Prior.

Emily Uhlig 4th in the USA 50k Nationals in 4:04. She was a 22ish 5k runner when they started working together. She is running her first 24 hour run this May.

Cory Jenkins 6th in the USA 50k Nationals in 3:15. He can run loads faster though. He was an 18-mid 5k runner when they started.

Mark Burke has done several time trail simulations that show he is between 3:10-3:20 shape. He will run his first Ultra in March

All ran those times in their first ultra ever. They are building the future. Contact them. If not, great luck!

HTC Runner.

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I have no advice. Just wanted to say good luck, kid. Ya got heart.