Why didn't webb run faster in the 800 in high school?

Probably because he never needed to. In what race did he need to run any faster than 1:47.74? He ran 3:53 in a race against pros. In his high school prime, he probably never had an 800m race where anyone pushed him to run faster.

I'm pretty sure he split 47.x in a relay. Meaning he probably had around 48.5 or so 400 speed. He still should have went under 1:47 at the very least. I think he could have broken the record. By the way, he ran the 1:47.74 at his state meet, so he may have doubled with a 4x4 or 4x8 relay before that.

Yeah the 47.x was a relay split. He never got in a pro 800 race like that mile he was in, and the 800 definitely wasn't his focus.

All of Webbs times are too slow compared to his 3:53. He didn't bust out a sub 8:20 2 mile either. Webb had a great day and busted out his run of the season. Put in his 2nd fastest mile for example and his 800m looks pretty much right in line. It isn't only Webb who did this. Look at Rupp's 5000m record for example. It would have translated to a 8:24 or so 2 mile or 28.19 10k. Both times Rupp didn't approach.Most of those calculators also assume you train for the distance and race it repeatledly. How many HS 800ms did Webb run where he went out in low 53s (what you need if you want to go sub 1:47). Not many is my guess.

SpeedyMcButtCakes wrote:

For a guy who ran 3:53.43 and 47 something 1:47.74 is pretty crappy. Take this predictor that has been proven to be accurate to at least .5 seconds either way.

alans 400 time: (47.5)/5*6=57.0. Then take his mile time divided by 5, 3:53.43/5=46.69. then add up the products. this adds up to 1:43.69. obviously way off, but if you take the PRs of other runners and put them into the equation it comes pretty close (even your own PRs). You could make the case that webb wasn't really trying to run fast at that time because he was winning nationals with 1:47.7, but even after going pro his 800 PR was 1:46.09 in 2004. What I'm getting at is that I think what is generally accepted as Alan's 400 from high school is way off. I think he ran more like 49.5-50.0 and somebody wanted to trump up his speed and accomplishments so they exagerrated his 400 time.

are you kidding? his state 800m he led from about 500m or 600m out all alone. i was there in richmond and it was definitely him agaisnt the clock. i think he had a good 50 - 100m on the entire field. if he trained a little more for it in high school and got in a pro race he probably could have run 145(high) but his focus was the mile.

That's a good observation. I don't think Jim Ryun ran very fast for the 800 (for a 3:55 guy) in HS and didn't even go under 9:00 in the two mile.

:|} wrote:

I'm pretty sure he split 47.x in a relay. Meaning he probably had around 48.5 or so 400 speed. He still should have went under 1:47 at the very least. I think he could have broken the record. By the way, he ran the 1:47.74 at his state meet, so he may have doubled with a 4x4 or 4x8 relay before that.

a 48.5? a whole 1.5 seconds for a relay split?

Consider This wrote:

That's a good observation. I don't think Jim Ryun ran very fast for the 800 (for a 3:55 guy) in HS and didn't even go under 9:00 in the two mile.

2 miles wasn't a high school event in ryun's day, so he had less opportunity to run it

someone had to do it wrote:

Consider This wrote:

That's a good observation. I don't think Jim Ryun ran very fast for the 800 (for a 3:55 guy) in HS and didn't even go under 9:00 in the two mile.

2 miles wasn't a high school event in ryun's day, so he had less opportunity to run it

Was that just in Kansas? Because Rick Riley popped an 8:48 (the record that Pre broke) in 1966 (the year after Ryun graduated) at the Washington State Meet. And anyway, Ryun, like Webb, didn't run the sort of 800 you would expect from a 3:55 guy.

Consider This wrote:

That's a good observation. I don't think Jim Ryun ran very fast for the 800 (for a 3:55 guy) in HS and didn't even go under 9:00 in the two mile.

Jim Ryan set the world record in the 804.7 meter race (i.e., 880yrd) in 1966 at the age of 19 in a time of 1:44.9. He had run a prelim earlier that day, while suffering, evidently, a low-level respiratory infection.

Consider This wrote:

...I don't think Jim Ryun ran very fast for the 800 (for a 3:55 guy) in HS and didn't even go under 9:00 in the two mile.

...Rick Riley popped an 8:48 (the record that Pre broke) in 1966 (the year after Ryun graduated) at the Washington State Meet. And anyway, Ryun, like Webb, didn't run the sort of 800 you would expect from a 3:55 guy.

(rolls eyes)

From wikipeadia:

"Today, over 40 years after he set them, Ryun still holds the American junior (19 and under) records at 880 yd (1:44.9), 800 m (1:44.3), 1,500 m (3:36.1), and two miles (8:25.1)."

Sciatica Road wrote:

Consider This wrote:

...I don't think Jim Ryun ran very fast for the 800 (for a 3:55 guy) in HS and didn't even go under 9:00 in the two mile.

...Rick Riley popped an 8:48 (the record that Pre broke) in 1966 (the year after Ryun graduated) at the Washington State Meet. And anyway, Ryun, like Webb, didn't run the sort of 800 you would expect from a 3:55 guy.

(rolls eyes)

From wikipeadia:

"Today, over 40 years after he set them, Ryun still holds the American junior (19 and under) records at 880 yd (1:44.9), 800 m (1:44.3), 1,500 m (3:36.1), and two miles (8:25.1)."

Jim Ryun graduated high school in 1965. So he did not run those times in high school.

Consider This wrote:

And anyway, Ryun, like Webb, didn't run the sort of 800 you would expect from a 3:55 guy.

The OP went on to state that Webb did not tun a fast 800m even as a pro. In your above statement, you did not make the distinction of whether you were talking specifically about Ryun's HS career. Besides the fact it is not extraordinary to be a 19 yr old HS Senior, the main point is that unlike Webb who may have never run an 800m comparable to his mile time (according to the OP), that was not the case for the beast, Jim Ryun.

Sciatica Road wrote:

Consider This wrote:

And anyway, Ryun, like Webb, didn't run the sort of 800 you would expect from a 3:55 guy.

The OP went on to state that Webb did not tun a fast 800m even as a pro.    In your above statement, you did not make the distinction of whether you were talking specifically about Ryun's HS career.  Besides the fact  it is not extraordinary to be a 19 yr old HS Senior, the main point is that unlike Webb who may have never run an 800m comparable to his mile time (according to the OP), that was not the case for the beast, Jim Ryun.

Furthermore, was Jim Ryun really a "3:55 guy" in High School, when actually he ran his PR 3:55.3 on June 27, 1965 only after he had already graduated?

'For a guy who ran 3:53.43 and 47 something 1:47.74 is pretty crappy. Take this predictor that has been proven to be accurate to at least .5 seconds either way.'

Not when you are still at school

take his 48 second 400 speed and add 4 seconds. That could probably be his opening lap. Now add 3 to 3.5 seconds to that for his second lap. 52 + 55.5 to 56 = 1:47 to 1:47.5. I don't understand why you think he'd run much faster by himself. Had he been set up to time trial a fast 800 maybe he'd run high 1:46.

Or take his 48 second 400 time and add 5 seconds. His 800 might be (assuming he had a highly developed aerobic base) 1:46 (53 +53). Add 5 seconds to that for a potential 1600 time (58+ 58+ 58+ 58) of 3:52.

His 1:47.74 was negative split where he went out in 54 and came back in 53.

He had a slight lead at the 400 mark and then blew the race open.

He would have run faster in a more ideal situation.

Reality check223 wrote:

:|} wrote:

I'm pretty sure he split 47.x in a relay. Meaning he probably had around 48.5 or so 400 speed. He still should have went under 1:47 at the very least. I think he could have broken the record. By the way, he ran the 1:47.74 at his state meet, so he may have doubled with a 4x4 or 4x8 relay before that.

a 48.5? a whole 1.5 seconds for a relay split?

Well let's see. I have no idea what the .x is, so let's just assume that it was around 47.5. Most people like to add either .75 seconds or 1 second to convert relay to open. I tend to like the 1 second conversion more, so that's how I got 48.5.

1) Yes, times run after graduation but before starting college count as being high school records.

2) Webb ran 1:43.84 as a pro. That's not quite as good as a 3:46.91 mile, but it's in the ball park (the IAAF has a 1:43.8 800 as worth about 3:49.5 for a mile).