I've been meaning to post this for a few days.
The general question is what are the basics requirements for a good road race.
Beyond that, specifically what should a road race that advertises on LetsRun.com guarantee its participants.
The December 6-7 weekend was not a good one for big road races.
First up was RNR Vegas Marathon. Perhaps we should say half-marathon because this post says there were 36,000 in the half and 8,000 in the full: http://runitfast.com/2011/12/0...ll-of-sin/
Logistically it was a disaster. Marathoners merging into half-marathoners, chaos, etc. A mob scene at the Mandalay Bay after the finish. Then a bunch of people got sick afterwards and have blamed the water served out of garbage cans (common at a lot of races). Hysteria then set in and now they are even testing fecal samples to see if it was caused from the water. This writer for the Vegas paper has a good take on it. He thinks the water story is complete bs but says the race was a disaster.
http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/du...99788.html
The next day in DC, really Maryland, was the Hot Chocolate 15k owned by RAM Racing, which is doing local advertising on LetsRun, and it was a disaster as well.
Inadequate parking, which led to miles and miles of backups on the highway. People abandoning their cars to get to the race. That led to the races being delayed over an hour, people standing around in the freezing cold, the course was then altered, walkers starting ahead of runners, etc.
Washington Post article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...story.html
Here is a blog by an LRC visitor who said she knew beforehand the race was going to be a disaster just because of the numbers (20,000 people is supposedly way too many for this location) http://wellimtryingtorun.blogs...ember.html
The common denominator is both races logistically were not prepared for the numbers they had. Both also put out apologies many deemed inadequate.
Both race organizers are excellent at marketing, getting numbers (I had never heard of RAM before they came to LRC to advertise but they got 20,000 for this event and I think this was their first race outside of the Midwest), and perhaps just as importantly getting cities to let them take over their roads. (I think that is one reason races that are mostly half marathons call themselves marathons. Every city feels it needs at least one marathon).
Both organizers are two of just a handful of nationwide for profit groups putting on races. Competitor Group which runs the Rock N Roll series is owned by a private equity group and RAM Racing owns the Hot Chocolate Series and is expanding out of their Chicago base.
So what are the basic requirements for a race and what should be guaranteed if it goes wrong? Maybe we should create an LRC seal of approval for races if they guarantee certain things.
At the very least, I can go to RAM and say, "if you want to advertise on LRC for your upcoming races you need to guarantee X, Y, and Z".
Personally, these events are first and foremost races so I think a certified course should be a thing races of this size have, but that does not address logistical concerns. Post away or email me directly.
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- Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to wejo
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Prize money for top finishers.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to wejo
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Simple.... go to Facebook and look at "Pacers Running Stores" page. They have created a document that outlines the basics.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to haha YO
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Wejo, this is a really good idea.
What are the basic things that I need when I go to a race?
1. I need a place to park my car near the course, so that I can leave my things there and go do my warmup. Preferably it's free to park, but I realize that's not possible everywhere.
2. I need enough porta potties so that I don't have to stand in line for more than 5 minutes to use one before the race.
3. I need a start corral that I don't have to get in more than 15 minutes before the race starts. I don't want to be standing around in the corral freezing for a half hour. Room for strides would be nice too.
4. I need a course that is free of obstacles other than runners going roughly the same speed as I'm going. That means preferably no looping or joining with runners going other distances.
5. Aid stations every few miles with clean drinking water would be nice in long races. Maybe gatorade in half marathon and longer. I can carry my own gu though.
6. Accurate mile markers. Even big races screw this up consistently. It's really not that hard. You measure the course.
7. Some sort of food or drink at the finish for long races. Not necessary though in short races--waste of money. I'll bring my own food and leave it in my car which is parked near the course.
8. Accurate timing with no shenanigans. It's not just accuracy. Some races do stupid things like only report gun times for people in the elite corral (Shamrock Shuffle). Give the awards based on gun times but report everything.
9. Accurate results posted in a timely manner. If you make a mistake on the results, fix it when someone points it out. RAM racing screwed up my friend's result at Hot Chocolate last year and never fixed it. Not required, but would be nice: publish a text file with all of the results, so we can look at them without searching a database.
I'm sure I'm leaving something out, but you can usually get all of these things at well-managed local races, except maybe results posted in a timely manner. I generally prefer to support a local race, and many of them have really good competition if they offer even a small amount of prize money.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to get ugly
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pretty simple: good road race security to prevent a-holes like Kip Litton from working around them.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to get ugly
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Have accurate course markings at every turn.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to get ugly
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I like get ugly's list.
I'd like to see some type of enforcement for which start wave runners are supposed to be in. I run way to many races that have waves, but there's too many people that line up in a faster wave anyway.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to get ugly
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This is a HUGE one. Good job.
get ugly wrote:
2. I need enough porta potties so that I don't have to stand in line for more than 5 minutes to use one before the race.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to wejo
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this might help:
http://raceslikeagirl.com/2010...-analysis/
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to haha YO
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Having enough porta potties is hugely underrated. I know a guy who works for a race management company. For every event, he is obsessed with the number of porta potties at the start and, for a half marathon, along the course. If the race receives an unexpected bump in registration, the first thing he does is call the rental company to up his porta potty order.
get ugly wrote:
2. I need enough porta potties so that I don't have to stand in line for more than 5 minutes to use one before the race.
His obsession seems funny, but his events are praised for the short bathroom wait time at the start. It makes a huge difference, makes people happy, and the added costs are marginal.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to get ugly
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Get Ugly's list is good, but something I'd add for marathons is an indoor facility for food, awards ceremony, etc. For bigger races, this could be a convention center, arena or something like that. Standing or sitting around in wet clothes after a marathon is not fun.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to haha YO
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There are so many little logistical things that make the difference between a well organized race and a disaster. It would take too much time to mention them all. The bottom line is that the Race Director (or at least someone working very closely with with the race director) has to be a runner. They have to have run enough races in their life (from 5k to Marathon) to understand what makes a good race for all involved.
That being said, I do have a wish list that would make things nicer for the more serious runners:
First and foremost - a prompt award ceremony. I am happy whenever I qualify for awards, but it kinda puts a damper on things when I have to wait around for 2 or more hours to receive the award. This is especially true for overall awards. Race directors need to remember that the top finishers have already been waiting around for the longest time due to the fact that they finished the race earliest.
Secondly - A free next year registration for top 10 finishers that are outside of prize money. The runners who are finishing 4th through 10th are usually very dedicated to training and racing. It would be a great motivation to their development as runners to let them come back next year and run the race for free. Also, it would help build the depth of the competitive field at that particular race, which would year by year build the prestige of the race.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to txRUNNERgirl
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I'd like a guarantee you will race the distance you paid for, or you will receive your money back. I'm sick of races turning out to be too short/too long.
That, and accurate course markers and directions.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to ooatmeal
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Since road races are a lot like XC races, let's just make them more like XC events. Whatever that means. Just do it.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to haha YO
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I ran the Chicago Hot Chocolate race this year, and there were significant delays as well. A lot of the problems noted in her blog happened during the Chicago race as well.
This was my first, and last, RAM Racing race.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to ooatmeal
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My priorities are this:
1) Accuracy of course measurement
2) Accuracy of timing
3) On-time start
4) Ease of getting to location.
1. I want the course measured accurately. I'm there to see what I can do at this specific distance against myself and my competition. At least if they screw up the timing I have my own watch and the head-to-head battles remain intact.
2. Please time it correctly so that it's document accurately what happened there that day. This can impact rankings and rewards and trickle outward from there, especially if I'm trying to qualify for something.
3) Start on time or else you jeopardize the performances of all the runners who have planned their day to lead up to this one point in time.
4) Make the course easy to get to so we can focus on the race and not get lost to a bad experience wrought with anxiety.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to wejo
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I think the overall problem with these races is a result of the increasing focus on appealing to those who care about COMPLETING races, rather than COMPETING. Since the majority of those in these big races care more about stuff like medals, finish line parties, goodie bags etc than accurate courses or prize money, that's what these races focus on.
wejo wrote:
So what are the basic requirements for a race and what should be guaranteed if it goes wrong? Maybe we should create an LRC seal of approval for races if they guarantee certain things.
At the very least, I can go to RAM and say, "if you want to advertise on LRC for your upcoming races you need to guarantee X, Y, and Z".
Personally, these events are first and foremost races so I think a certified course should be a thing races of this size have, but that does not address logistical concerns. Post away or email me directly.
But the thing is, stuff like accurate courses and accurate timing are the very basics underlying race management. I can live without a course being certified, but seeing that certification reassures me that the race management has put a lot of thought into exactly how the race will run, instead of just focusing on marketing and goodie bags.
I think, at a minimum, races should be able to provide
a) a certified course;
b) a website map that clearly indicates where water, gels, etc will be provided;
c) a clear plan for management of start and finish areas;
d) a listing of what awards will be given (which groups, and how many deep), including what the awards will be;
e) a commitment to post results within 24 hours (and to review finish line photos and mid race splits to confirm accuracy of results for overall and age group winners.
f) copies of all permits granted by local authorities, including a statement of total # of participants permitted.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to wejo
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Some kind of qualifying standard, even a very lenient one would cut the mob problem significantly.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to False
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The one item that pisses me off more than anything is a bone head course. That can mean any number of items. The course should be properly measured and marked. I'm sorry but I shouldn't have to memorize every turn of the race. The course should not make faster runners join in with slower runners that you see all too often at combined half and full marathons. I will not run a marathon if it does this. And one that happened to me most recently, do not have an out and back course where runners have to cross the path of other runners. If a race director cannot design a better course than this they should get out of the business.
I don't care much what happens AFTER the race, I'm happy just to go home. Get the course right with an organized, on time start and I'm happy.
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- RE: Road Race Disasters: What Are the Basic Requirements For a Good Road Race - in reply to joho
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Does this mean that Sketchers had the LRC Seal of Approval? Because I've been considering getting a pair them ballerina twisty shoes I keep seeing advertised on the homepage, but I wasn't sure how it would affect my training. Was thinking it could help me corner better.
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