Any votes?
Others?
Any votes?
Others?
Emule Zatopek had a big one
Seb and EZ were dopers as was 99% of runners then. Records before blood and urine tests are ignored.
over 800, in a slow race, say 1'45/1'46, he woudn't
he likely had 45.7/45.8 ability in '81
plenty of elite 800 guys with faster 400 ability than that ( caballo 44.2 ! ) & 1'45/1'46 woudn't overly tax 1'42 or even 1'43 guys, so they woud bring near enough whole 400 speed to the table
he'd get beat
over 1500, it is a different matter
the only guy who couda tussled with him in a slow 1500 wouda been ryun ( forget ovett - he was no better than 47.0 )
albeit i just can't see ryun losing to him in '67 shape in a slowish 1500 - say 3'35
it'd have to be 3'40+ before coe has much chance
i'd give the '67 ryun on a '70s track with proper wabbits
1'41.0
with
45.8 ->3'25.4
45.9 ->3'25.1
46.0 ->3'24.7
somewhere in latter 2 lines looks my bet
the ole timers weren't wrong
by a long way he was best ever 1500 guy who ever lived & wouda been close to rudy/kip over 800 - & he didn't even train for 800 !!!
Lasse Viren anyone?
Viren the king of the dopers.
kick essentially means what 400 you are bringing to a slow race
i'd offer :
coe - 45.7/45.8
ryun - 45.8/46.0
cram - 46.2/46.3
noah - 46.3
asbel - 46.9/47.0
ovett - 47.0/47.1
morceli - 47.5
hicham - 47.7
bernie - 47.8/48.0
aouita - 48.0/48.2
keino - 48.4
this is pretty much more or less what i'd expect the order to be in a slow 1500, say 3'35 - 3'40 pace to bell, with a mass sprint by the bunch at the bell ( with some tweaks )
I thought u had Noah at 47.3
i did for a while
reckoned he was probably worth mid-1'42 off his 2'11.9wr
however, it struck like a hammer when i realised he ran that off suicidal high-49 !!!
the lactate debt musta been killing him by 600 !
evened out, that 2'11.9 is possibly more like high-2'10
the only line that makes sense with high-2'10/low-3'26 is
low-46/high-1'41
46.3 / 1'41.7 -> 2'10.8 , 3'26.2 , 3'43.1
i'd bet good money he was in high-1'41 shape that day in rieti...
Their are different types of kicks. In a fast race Coe was the best in the last 150.
In a slow race, Steve Ovett and Fermin Cacho were better.
In a slow race Abdi Bile had the greatest long kick in a World Championship. Steve Cram was also strong the last 300.
El G proved his heart outkicking Lagat in 2004. Before that, he had little evidence that he could win in a kick race.
Morceli and Aouita and Jim Ryun had awesome last 400 kicks .
Coe was the only one I've ever seen shift gears three time in the last 200 of a 1500. The LA 1500 was remarkeable how he had another gear the last 100 in a 3:32 race.
One Word - Usain Bolt.
EOFT.
break it up wrote:Coe was the only one I've ever seen shift gears three time in the last 200 of a 1500. The LA 1500 was remarkeable how he had another gear the last 100 in a 3:32 race.
that is overblown
cram was a 3'33.1 guy that year
it makes his kick look over-valued
hicham kicked 53+ in his 3'26.00
ventolin^3 wrote:
i did for a while
reckoned he was probably worth mid-1'42 off his 2'11.9wr
however, it struck like a hammer when i realised he ran that off suicidal high-49 !!!
the lactate debt musta been killing him by 600 !
evened out, that 2'11.9 is possibly more like high-2'10
the only line that makes sense with high-2'10/low-3'26 is
low-46/high-1'41
46.3 / 1'41.7 -> 2'10.8 , 3'26.2 , 3'43.1
i'd bet good money he was in high-1'41 shape that day in rieti...
So what do you think that gives him for 1200? You had El G at 2:40.7, Coe at 2:40.9, and Noah at 2:41.0.
2'40.6 rounded down as always
( 2'40.53 precise )
Abraham Chebii, circa 2003.
Obviously didn't demonstrate it repeatedly like some of the other names here, but for a little while he threatened to be a real great.
ventolin^3 wrote:
over 800, in a slow race, say 1'45/1'46, he woudn't
he likely had 45.7/45.8 ability in '81
plenty of elite 800 guys with faster 400 ability than that ( caballo 44.2 ! ) & 1'45/1'46 woudn't overly tax 1'42 or even 1'43 guys, so they woud bring near enough whole 400 speed to the table
he'd get beat
over 1500, it is a different matter
the only guy who couda tussled with him in a slow 1500 wouda been ryun ( forget ovett - he was no better than 47.0 )
albeit i just can't see ryun losing to him in '67 shape in a slowish 1500 - say 3'35
Take your dick out of Jim Ryun's ass. You just outed yourself as a fvcking tard again. Jim Ryun won fvck all at world level,such was his finishing kick
it'd have to be 3'40+ before coe has much chance
i'd give the '67 ryun on a '70s track with proper wabbits
1'41.0
with
45.8 ->3'25.4
45.9 ->3'25.1
46.0 ->3'24.7
somewhere in latter 2 lines looks my bet
the ole timers weren't wrong
by a long way he was best ever 1500 guy who ever lived & wouda been close to rudy/kip over 800 - & he didn't even train for 800 !!!
sambo wrote:Abraham Chebii, circa 2003.
Obviously didn't demonstrate it repeatedly like some of the other names here, but for a little while he threatened to be a real great.
i'd put his line of fit in '03, prelim
~ 49.5 / 1'45.5 -> 3'28.9 ! , 4'45.3 ! , 7'22.2 !! , 12'46.8 , 26'54.9
3k wouda been his best distance ( no one has been interested in 2k for a decade+ )
What about some of the Spanish runners especially in the mile/1500?
He still had a great kick, did he not?
Peter Snell in the Tokyo olympics 1500m, put about 10 meters on the field in the last 200.