How does Fayeteville-Manlius do it?

I think it's consistent higher mileage year round. I asked a former # 1, had to be 6 or 7 years ago, what he did and he said something like "we run a lot".

Over the summer, the top 5-7 men are running upwards of 80 miles a week in mostly singles so I've heard.

I'm pretty sure there standard run is like 12 miles with like an 18 mile long run.

Can anyone else confirm this?

I have heard from a former runner that there was a 300 minute run, yes that's five hours. Hard to believe, but if it's true?

I had the pleasure of listening to their coach last year at the Distance Summit in Charlotte. Bill is a hardworking, knowledgeable coach who cares about his runners. There is not a "secret" to their success. If you want to be a great coach and have a great team, you have to work hard at it and be a student of the sport. Read lots of books and apply the formula that you come up with.

I will say that he really understands the mental part of what student-athletes go through. He also builds a team, not just individual runners.

Just my thoughts.

No one said anything about secrets. What is it with people always saying that? The question was about what they do for training, not what their "secret" is. They obviously do something different. If success was merely a function of how hard kids work, there would be many more teams and individuals in contention for national titles. So what do they do differently from other hard-working teams?

former section 3 wrote:

Over the summer, the top 5-7 men are running upwards of 80 miles a week in mostly singles so I've heard.

I'm pretty sure there standard run is like 12 miles with like an 18 mile long run.

This is more than 80 miles. Just saying.

How does York do it?

That is the question.

Do what?

No one has had such a dominant girls team at the national level. York has hard interval workouts all the time and 2:30 long runs (the guys at least).. In Bill Aris' interview, it sounded like he is different. He doesn't have the numbers to do so many intense interval workouts, but maybe he does. With a story like Christie Rutledge's, I think he is a little more careful.

Some of these HS programs are secretive as sh*& on training. I mean really - if it's not a secret then why not tell us how you train your guys?

For example, listen to this interview with the Rancho Cucamango coach:

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/240313-Flotrack-High-School-Elite-50/video/511792-9-Rancho-Cucamonga-Coach-Terry-Tierney

He does everything but tell you their program training details. And then tells the interviewer to ask the Dana Hills coach or Arcadia coach!

Go to Greg Mcmillian's website and buy the video of Bill speaking at the 2011 Distance Summit. Granted he does not go into a great deal of workouts because some of the top physiologists in the world were already speaking. He even says that he has taken everything that he does from someone else. That is why I said go out and read some books.

From seeing him speak you get the idea that the reason they are so good is because he builds a great overall program. It is not just about workouts or drills. It is about building a great team environment.

Really. wrote:

No one has had such a dominant girls team at the national level. York has hard interval workouts all the time and 2:30 long runs (the guys at least).. In Bill Aris' interview, it sounded like he is different. He doesn't have the numbers to do so many intense interval workouts, but maybe he does. With a story like Christie Rutledge's, I think he is a little more careful.

You do realize that Rutledge has been hurt for quite some time now.

Math Wizz wrote:

former section 3 wrote:

Over the summer, the top 5-7 men are running upwards of 80 miles a week in mostly singles so I've heard.

I'm pretty sure there standard run is like 12 miles with like an 18 mile long run.

This is more than 80 miles. Just saying.

Not if you only run 6 days a week.

Truth Sayer wrote:

Some of these HS programs are secretive as sh*& on training. I mean really - if it's not a secret then why not tell us how you train your guys?

For example, listen to this interview with the Rancho Cucamango coach:

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/240313-Flotrack-High-School-Elite-50/video/511792-9-Rancho-Cucamonga-Coach-Terry-Tierney

He does everything but tell you their program training details. And then tells the interviewer to ask the Dana Hills coach or Arcadia coach!

CBA, which is arguably the best boys XC program in the country, is not to secretive in their training. Their coaches hold a sleep-away XC camp every sumer and have a website where they tell people what they do in training. Supposedly, their entire top 7 runs 75 a week in doubles during the sumer. And during the school year, their top runners do a workout before school (a run or biking), and run at practice after school. They also do a lot of water running. On flotrack there is a video of them doing a 400m repeat workout and another of their top runner showing all of their facilities and explains their work ethic and tradition.

section 8... wrote:

You do realize that Rutledge has been hurt for quite some time now.

True. I forgot, but she wasn't injury plagued her first two years when she was running super slow times, was she? And one injury doesn't disprove he is more careful with athletes than a program like York where they have well over 100 kids to choose from. I'm just saying he says he has a very small team (smaller than my high school's team where there was only 300 kids in the whole school), so healthy development has to be a priority for him.

I heard they run 2 hour runs over the summer and 90 minute running workouts during the season.

What FM does isn't hard to replicate from a workouts standpoint. What is different is the culture Bill Aris has built. With the girls, he treats them like boys, and by that I mean that he doesn't baby them, rather he develops them into extremely efficient runners, while molding their mind to be insanely tough. I think a big part of the girls' success stems from many of their top runners training with some of the slower runners on the boys team. They are constantly getting pushed, constantly thinking that what they are doing is hard but also making them incredible athletes, and they take that tough as nails mindset into their races.

I agree that Aris needs to be careful with his athletes. Obviously some athletes get hurt, but the team is so tiny that he has to develop the kids from day one. He cares about all of his kids, and holds each of them to high expectations, which goes a long way to develop an entire, and lasting, program.

fast wrote:

CBA, which is arguably the best boys XC program in the country, is not to secretive in their training. Their coaches hold a sleep-away XC camp every sumer and have a website where they tell people what they do in training. Supposedly, their entire top 7 runs 75 a week in doubles during the sumer. And during the school year, their top runners do a workout before school (a run or biking), and run at practice after school. They also do a lot of water running. On flotrack there is a video of them doing a 400m repeat workout and another of their top runner showing all of their facilities and explains their work ethic and tradition.

Could you post the link to the site? I couldn't find it.

I've spoken with Bill Aris a few times at NBN and Manhattan and I also got the chance to speak with some parents while watching the races. I believe their success is due to creating a very positive, almost spiritual culture on the team.

If you trust and respect your teammates and coaches and you stay consistent with training all year round your chances for success increase.

It's NOT some workout secret unless you consider hill running year round to be a secret.

Change the culture, promote accountability within the group, teach the athletes to be their own best coach and learn the sport just like you learn any other subject.

They usually have a very small group as well and Bill tends to do a lot of talking following practices. Many coaches forget that their job is to train the athletes and coach the team. A good coach is good because of who he is and what he believes. The experience is akin to learning from a teacher who truly believes in the positive influence of the sport.

If you want to know what they do differently physically, I would say one of the biggest things is a high weight, low rep power lifting routine. Everyone does this (or did until recently) including their girls.

Also, all of their runs are at a moderate to high intensity. I cannot think of too many days where they say "ok take today off or go jog easy at 8:00min/pace."

Ideally, HS runners can survive and even thrive off this type of intensity for a decent amount of time. In the long run, I'm not sure how "ideal" it is. That's not to say they don't have some runners who are not successful in college, but I don't think the transition percentage tends to be as good as it should be. Also, just because some athletes are running fast does not mean they are HEALTHY. I have seen some very strong athletes in that program. But I have also seen some very unhealthy athletes.

Mentally -- that is where Bill Aris trumps just about every HS coach in the nation. He's a very strong speaker, knows how to talk to young athletes and keep them highly motivated and is good at creating a competitive edge even in practice. Everyday he repeats the goal of the team is and also goals for individuals. Repeating these goals over and over ensures that is what the kids are focusing on. They don't ever attend practice and hear "Ok, so the plan for today is to run 6 x 1k hard!" There is always a reason to what they are doing and an explanation. Because of that, he is able to command much more physical and mental effort from his athletes than almost any other coach.