Great race by rupp. Great progress by the US.
Great race by rupp. Great progress by the US.
Ridiculous.
That's a typo I mean 13:23...sorry
And then US runners became very sickly and very medicated.
yep, and there's people on these boards that say nothing has changed with training methods in the past 30 years...I wonder what those same people credit the improvement to???
Referred to this on another thread. Both of those splits are faster than two-time Olympian Alan Culpepper ever ran for 5,000m. (Though I think you mean 13:21.4.)
Rbyrne wrote:
yep, and there's people on these boards that say nothing has changed with training methods in the past 30 years...I wonder what those same people credit the improvement to???
Not sure which "side" you are arguing, but what training methods have changed since 1980?
I have seen outlines of the Portuguese, American, East German, British and African methods that yielded the top-10 all-time performances in a range from 27:40 down to 27:20 from 1975-1985. I have seen outlines of the American, Mexican, East African, Moroccan, and Italian methods that dominated the era from 1986-1992 and from 27:20 down to 27:00. Last I have seen the methods of the East Africans and Moroccans that have dominated the last 20 years and from 27:00 down to 26:17.
I don't see any huge differences group to group or era to era. I see that since EPO was introduced the records have fallen faster at 1500 to 10k than anyone would EVER have predicted and I see that the faster the top times get the LESS each individual seems to race, meaning they are ducking each other, but mostly ducking the testers.
Really what are these supposed differences in training? I have an open mind and don't read about the methods in 2010-2011 enough to really know what you are talking about, but would like to.
When I started as a young kid in 1978 the record setting had already leveled off quite a bit and if you told us that someone would lap Henry Rono in a 10k and beat him by a FULL 200m in the 5000 I would have never believed it.
Please don't tell me that "they do their intervals faster" ... because OF COURSE they do. This year's top 10 all ran around 50 seconds faster than the top-10 from 1985. So they should be doing their intervals about 2-seconds per lap faster than that era.
Considering the substantial improvements in the highschool record books also, could the Internet have anything to do with the drop in times?
Here's your answer:
1) The worlds a bigger place then it was 30 years ago - in fact it has added about a billion more people. More people means more outliers
2) There are a lot more Africans in general running and and Kenyans and Ethiopians in specific, and they are running longer and with better training and resources. Many happen to be very good runners, this increases the pool of world class athletes - for every 1 Henry Rono, now you have 15 and many of the best ones hang around longer.
3) US population has undergone the same boom in pop that begat those great running days. This has led to a lot better times.
4) Even without drugs, science and technology have helped elite runners recover faster and, since they can earn a living doing so, run fewer races but at a higher level.
5) Great running means more great running - elites feed on the performances of other. Look how many broke 4 within 5 years of Bannister.
Great post BS. It really takes away from the enjoyment of the sport when every good performance is followed by allegations of doping. Beef up testing and try to make the sport as clean as possible, but in the meantime I'd like to just be able to just appreciate a great race and the progression of our sport without hearing endless speculation about cheating.
What's wrong with Reporters? wrote:
When I started as a young kid in 1978 the record setting had already leveled off quite a bit and if you told us that someone would lap Henry Rono in a 10k and beat him by a FULL 200m in the 5000 I would have never believed it.
You didn't think anybody could run significantly faster than an alcoholic?
The biggest difference is that the Africans actually have good coaching now.
13:24 (Ben True) ranks 6th on the USA list for 2011. 13:25 (Matt Lane) ranked 6th in 2000.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
You didn't think anybody could run significantly faster than an alcoholic?
This made me laugh, thanks, it's funny because it's true.
gremlins wrote:
13:24 (Ben True) ranks 6th on the USA list for 2011. 13:25 (Matt Lane) ranked 6th in 2000.
While that stat is cherry-picked and not really worth responding to, I would like it noted that both of those guys are from (the greatest state in the union) Maine.
What are the rankings for this year? I imagine some regular 5kers are missing.
Not An Expert wrote:
gremlins wrote:13:24 (Ben True) ranks 6th on the USA list for 2011. 13:25 (Matt Lane) ranked 6th in 2000.
While that stat is cherry-picked and not really worth responding to, I would like it noted that both of those guys are from (the greatest state in the union) Maine.
nuyorka wrote:
That's a typo I mean 13:23...sorry
13:26.6 and 13:24.4 = 26:50.
I believe youn mean 13:26.6 and 13:21.4 as that ='s 26:48
I like the way Solinsky is running and remember that Rupp got a long way to think about medalling since he has never defeated Solinsky. The Great Kenenisa is BACK!!! Again I give him credit for his good job.
Not An Expert wrote:
While that stat is cherry-picked and not really worth responding to, I would like it noted that both of those guys are from (the greatest state in the union) Maine.
Sure it's cherry picked, but let's put it into perspective.
The table below lists, by year, the total number of sub 13:30 performances and the number of runners with a sub 13:30 performance. The peak year was 2009 when 18 different runners went sub 13:30 a total of 33 times. All U.S. of course.
Year, # Sub 13:30 Performances, # Sub 13:30 Runners
1972, 5, 2
1973, 3, 2
1974, 5, 3
1975, 4, 3
1976, 5, 3
1977, 5, 3
1978, 5, 3
1979, 14, 5
1980, 12, 6
1981, 14, 7
1982, 11, 6
1983, 13, 5
1984, 9, 6
1985, 23, 9
1986, 14, 8
1987, 11, 5
1988, 7, 3
1989, 5, 3
1990, 5, 4
1991, 6, 4
1992, 2, 2
1993, 11, 8
1994, 5, 2
1995, 9, 4
1996, 13, 6
1997, 6, 3
1998, 8, 4
1999, 9, 3
2000, 14, 11
2001, 11, 7
2002, 8, 8
2003, 6, 4
2004, 8, 6
2005, 28, 14
2006, 21, 11
2007, 15, 12
2008, 14, 10
2009, 33, 18
2010, 18, 13
2011, 24, 14
Total, 439, 250
Here are the runners with the most sub 13:30 performances.
Runner, Total
Bob Kennedy, 43
Sydney Maree, 21
Bernard Lagat, 17
Matt Tegenkamp, 17
Adam Goucher, 14
Doug Padilla, 14
Steve Plasencia, 14
Chris Solinsky, 13
Craig Virgin, 11
Alberto Salazar, 10
Mark Nenow, 10
Abdihakem Abdirahman, 9
Dathan Ritzenhein, 9
Matt Centrowitz, 9
Steve Prefontaine, 9
Forgot to mention this is only outdoors.