Rupp had a great race today, and was in it up until about 600 to go, but Rupp has never or will never be able to close with people like Mo, Bekele, Lagat and that ethiopian that just smoked Mo.
Rupp had a great race today, and was in it up until about 600 to go, but Rupp has never or will never be able to close with people like Mo, Bekele, Lagat and that ethiopian that just smoked Mo.
Thats it? He will never be able to close against three runners in the world, one of whom as a DNF?
You just named Rupp a future Bronze medal winner.
ryan foreman wrote:
Thats it? He will never be able to close against three runners in the world, one of whom as a DNF?
You just named Rupp a future Bronze medal winner.
First, let's work on counting to four...then let's try fallacious arguments.
Rupp may never close in 53-54 but he has come closer every year. I think he should keep at it through 2012 then take Ryan Hall's role
How about trying to count guys who actually run the 10,000. Lagat?
kartelite wrote:
ryan foreman wrote:Thats it? He will never be able to close against three runners in the world, one of whom as a DNF?
You just named Rupp a future Bronze medal winner.
First, let's work on counting to four...then let's try fallacious arguments.
Why do people make the huge leap in faith that the Marathon is an event for 10k runners without enough closing speed? That is historically wrong.
Secondly, Rupp will never leave Alberto and Alberto has been a failure in the marathon.
That is the other ridiculous thing about this thread. The only thing we do know for sure is that Rupp can close in 54 seconds. His endurance is more of a question mark right now.
A Salazar wrote:
Why do people make the huge leap in faith that the Marathon is an event for 10k runners without enough closing speed? That is historically wrong.
Secondly, Rupp will never leave Alberto and Alberto has been a failure in the marathon.
Other than the US champs, Galen has not had the opportunity to "finish" a high level race in recent months. He might be a bit rusty. Hopefully he will attempt the American record later this year in Europe.
Yes, the best 10,000 runner in the US (Solinsky needs to do it again b4 I'm convinced) should stop running the 10 immediately because he only finished 7th in the world.
Secondly, based on his 60:30 half marathon debut, I'd say he looks very good for the marathon after 2012.
A Salazar wrote:
Why do people make the huge leap in faith that the Marathon is an event for 10k runners without enough closing speed? That is historically wrong.
Secondly, Rupp will never leave Alberto and Alberto has been a failure in the marathon.
salazar was great in the marathon
Hard to know if he was spent from the conditions or if as you say he was rusty from lack of high level racing. He just fell right off the back (or out of my screen) when the tempo quickened about 700 meters out. I don't know what his last lap was, but would be surprised if it was sub 60.
I hope he runs Van Damme. That would be a great set up for him.
I agree. Finish 7th and move up to the marathon. How about staying where you are and getting better. Moving up is the pvssy move.
tsquaredcali wrote:
Yes, the best 10,000 runner in the US (Solinsky needs to do it again b4 I'm convinced) should stop running the 10 immediately because he only finished 7th in the world.
Secondly, based on his 60:30 half marathon debut, I'd say he looks very good for the marathon after 2012.
He said in his post race interview that he had one more race in Europe. He still has the 5,000 in Degu. I don't expect him to be a huge factor in that race, but you never know.
If not being able to close in a championship race was reason to move up then we'd NEVER have anyone running the 5k or 10k.
Kennedy couldn't do it, Williams couldn't do it, no American has...save for import Lagat.
At the end of the day I believe it's a matter of depth of speed. As a Kenyan or Ethiopian you could run a 1500m time that would put you at the top in America but you're an also-ran in your own country so you take that speed and move up.
Or it's the US college system that's to blame? Who knows. This happens every two years at the WC or every four at the Olympics. Our depth has gotten better since the Bob and Todd show of the '90s but the top results are still about the same.
Alan
Frankly I don't think Rupp will ever make a mark where it counts, in world class competition. He doesn't have that depth, as others have noted. For example, the last 10K he ran prior to World Champs, was all about testing his speed in the last 600, which was quite good, except it was after rolling 70 second quarters. BFD when the Ethiopians and Kenyans can bust out the low 50 quarters after running regular 65s.
But more than that, there is something more imprecise and unscientific. He just doesn't seem to me to have that killer focus, that (excuse the awful, awful cliche) "eye of the tiger." At the start of the 10K, he looked like a scared, wide eyed little boy, not a runner capable of scoring a medal against world class competition. I've watched him race before, and every time when he's not running away for an easy win, when it's actually HARD and he's got COMPETITION, I can see in his eyes the moment when he just switches off, and is content to settle for a top 10 and a PR.
He's a product of a growing mentality that emphasizes personal bests and easy wins like top tens and winning the age group. That kind of mindset should not be acceptable.
I also think the money thing is a huge psychological factor. The Kenyans and Ethiopians are running for their VERY LIVES, and the LIVES of their FAMILY. A win means money to care for everyone for life. That is a huge mental edge, an incentive hard to transcend by our soft athletes with their Alter-Gs, altitude houses and 200K shoe contracts. They have nothing at stake.
The reason we were better back in the 60s and 70s was because those runners were, in a way, like the Ethiopians. Working class kids coming from no money, for whom running was not a career so much as a means to achieve financial security. If you won Gold, then that meant you could get a good job...but until then you had to scrape by. Hell Jim Ryun bagged groceries to pay to travel for altitude training before Mexico City. Prefontaine lived on food stamps. Shorter was enough of a realist that he got a law degree, because at the time there wasn't much of a future as a runner.
I'm not saying we should go back to the days when pro runners had to live in poverty, but I do believe the desire to escape that state of live was a incentive when it came time to racing.
Now, when our top athletes are bought a paid for by Nike, when they have that soft cushion to land on, and they can generally win races in the U.S. (yet are virtually meaningless in the world scheme), what have they at stake by not winning, not getting a medal in a world class event?
Just so you know, Rupp would absolutely destroy Pre, Shorter and Ryun (except Ryun in the mile). And I'm guessing no one in that final was sleeping on a dirt floor in a straw hut or whatever you have in mind.
He should be. It's 2011.
Brian Rose wrote:
Frankly I don't think Rupp will ever make a mark where it counts, in world class competition. He doesn't have that depth, as others have noted. For example, the last 10K he ran prior to World Champs, was all about testing his speed in the last 600, which was quite good, except it was after rolling 70 second quarters. BFD when the Ethiopians and Kenyans can bust out the low 50 quarters after running regular 65s.
But more than that, there is something more imprecise and unscientific. He just doesn't seem to me to have that killer focus, that (excuse the awful, awful cliche) "eye of the tiger." At the start of the 10K, he looked like a scared, wide eyed little boy, not a runner capable of scoring a medal against world class competition. I've watched him race before, and every time when he's not running away for an easy win, when it's actually HARD and he's got COMPETITION, I can see in his eyes the moment when he just switches off, and is content to settle for a top 10 and a PR.
He's a product of a growing mentality that emphasizes personal bests and easy wins like top tens and winning the age group. That kind of mindset should not be acceptable.
I also think the money thing is a huge psychological factor. The Kenyans and Ethiopians are running for their VERY LIVES, and the LIVES of their FAMILY. A win means money to care for everyone for life. That is a huge mental edge, an incentive hard to transcend by our soft athletes with their Alter-Gs, altitude houses and 200K shoe contracts. They have nothing at stake.
The reason we were better back in the 60s and 70s was because those runners were, in a way, like the Ethiopians. Working class kids coming from no money, for whom running was not a career so much as a means to achieve financial security. If you won Gold, then that meant you could get a good job...but until then you had to scrape by. Hell Jim Ryun bagged groceries to pay to travel for altitude training before Mexico City. Prefontaine lived on food stamps. Shorter was enough of a realist that he got a law degree, because at the time there wasn't much of a future as a runner.
I'm not saying we should go back to the days when pro runners had to live in poverty, but I do believe the desire to escape that state of live was a incentive when it came time to racing.
Now, when our top athletes are bought a paid for by Nike, when they have that soft cushion to land on, and they can generally win races in the U.S. (yet are virtually meaningless in the world scheme), what have they at stake by not winning, not getting a medal in a world class event?
Dumb ass...we weren't better in the 60's, 70's or 80's. All of our times are better now and our depth is better now. Kenya and Ethiopia have gotten better and much, much deeper. No way Shorter or Pre or Rogers or whoever beat the Africans today. Stop being posting long moronic trash.
I didn't see that at all in the race today. It looked at about 6K (one of the few times the camera went back to the race after the fifth round of the jump) that he was being gapped, and he accelerated quite strongly up to 5th or so - in fact it looked like all the Kenyans were going to go off the back right then and not Rupp. I also liked the way he protected himself from getting cut off about that time as well. He has better speed than Kennedy or Williams for sure, but he just looked spent at the end today. He beat Sihine easily and was a couple of seconds behind Tadesse; that's not a wide eyed little boy who can do that.
[quote]Brian Rose wrote:
Frankly I don't think Rupp will ever make a mark where it counts, in world class competition. He doesn't have that depth, as others have noted. For example, the last 10K he ran prior to World Champs, was all about testing his speed in the last 600, which was quite good, except it was after rolling 70 second quarters. BFD when the Ethiopians and Kenyans can bust out the low 50 quarters after running regular 65s.
But more than that, there is something more imprecise and unscientific. He just doesn't seem to me to have that killer focus, that (excuse the awful, awful cliche) "eye of the tiger." At the start of the 10K, he looked like a scared, wide eyed little boy, not a runner capable of scoring a medal against world class competition. I've watched him race before, and every time when he's not running away for an easy win, when it's actually HARD and he's got COMPETITION, I can see in his eyes the moment when he just switches off, and is content to settle for a top 10 and a PR.
I do think the marathon is his event. He was in this race until Farah made that move with 600 or so to go. But, he ran a great race.