Any actuaries on this board?

Anyone?

1) Be strong in Math.

2) Be strong in Math.

But honestly...

I have two friends who work in actuarial. I'll ask them your question and get back to you.

Actuaries: people who find accountancy too exciting.

taking a study break from the first exam right now and saw this thread.

i talked to a CEO of an insurance company the other day. he gave me a lot of advice. he said if i can pass the first exam i will get hired somewhere, but not anywhere.

take that for what you will. how much math/probability have you taken?

taking a study break from the first exam right now and saw this thread.

i talked to a CEO of an insurance company the other day. he gave me a lot of advice. he said if i can pass the first exam i will get hired somewhere, but not anywhere.

take that for what you will. how much math/probability have you taken?

I've got a higher degree in mathematics. I'm currently teaching at a liberal arts college, and I am really unhappy. I just find myself unable to do any math. Everything I do revolves around appeasing undergraduates so that we do not lose enrollment.

I am also considering a career switch of some sort, and I have no idea where to go. I've taken 2 semesters of undergraduate and 3 semesters of graduate level probability. I think I could pass the first exam easily, but I have no idea about the financial mathematics on the second exam. Do you know any good resources? I've looked on beanactuary.org. Does anyone have any personal experience switching from pure mathematics to another field?

Hahaha, if you think that you are going to be happier as an actuary than teacher then I would try finding a summer internship. I am not an actuary but got hired because I passed some actuarial exams and my company was interested in that. I sit in front of a computer all day and don't get the same type of human interaction that a teacher gets. But I am unfamiliar with your situation. Maybe try another school. I am an adjunct in addition to my full time job and I love teaching, would work full time but only have a MS.

I thought FM was harder than P.

RockyRococo wrote:

1) Be strong in Math.

2) Be strong in Math.

But honestly...

I have two friends who work in actuarial. I'll ask them your question and get back to you.

I would really appreciate that RockRococo!

actuarywannabe wrote:

taking a study break from the first exam right now and saw this thread.

i talked to a CEO of an insurance company the other day. he gave me a lot of advice. he said if i can pass the first exam i will get hired somewhere, but not anywhere.

take that for what you will. how much math/probability have you taken?

That is ok news. I would not be picky. I have a very young child and a wife, and we are willing to relocate, but I just want to make sure that I will be able to find a job if I am going to invest a ton of time into studying.

During my econ degree, I think I probably had about 5 or 6 stats classes, and I always did pretty well. I have always done well with math, but have only had everything up to calc 1, and calc 1 was a little tough because I took over the course of only 1 month during the summer, but I got through it. What are you using to study for the first exam?

Thanks for your help!

interesting discussion wrote:

I've got a higher degree in mathematics. I'm currently teaching at a liberal arts college, and I am really unhappy. I just find myself unable to do any math. Everything I do revolves around appeasing undergraduates so that we do not lose enrollment.

I am also considering a career switch of some sort, and I have no idea where to go. I've taken 2 semesters of undergraduate and 3 semesters of graduate level probability. I think I could pass the first exam easily, but I have no idea about the financial mathematics on the second exam. Do you know any good resources? I've looked on beanactuary.org. Does anyone have any personal experience switching from pure mathematics to another field?

I got my first degree in Math with minors in education, computer science and physics. I taught high school for a year, and then did private tutoring, teaching for vocational rehab (taught math to blind guys), and taught remedial math at a state university.

I, for the most part, hated teaching and so I looked into actuarial work initially and took the first exam. I scored in the 90th percentile in the first exam (didn't find it terribly difficult) and looked into working in the insurance industry and had quite a bit of success applying for jobs (offers from 3 of the 4 interviews), but the interviews themselves turned me off from the work. I ended up going to school again and getting a degree in Civil Engineering (took 18 months).

Moral of the story, if you are looking for a career switch, try to shadow a worker in an industry that interests you for a couple of weeks prior investing time/money to pursue that career.

I loved probability and the math behind being an actuary, but I felt the insurance industry was not the place for that work to be applied. If I had through of working for an economic firm, I might have continued to on the actuary track, but as my log-on says, I'm a fan of the rural mountain west, and there are virtually no actuarial jobs outside of the insurance industry in that environment.

Lots of stuff to weigh...have fun!

My Thursday lunch group is made up of actuaries so I asked them. Here is one reply...

"2 exams are better than 1, but 2 is also probably better than 3 if you don’t have job experience as an actuary or a degree in actuarial science.

1 exam could indicate that you are sick of your job and got curious. You might get fed up after 6 months and leave.

2 indicates that are seriously considering the job change and are willing to make a commitment to it, studying on your own time with no immediate payoff. That impresses me.

3 or more exams means that you want to make a ton of money as an entry level student providing little or no additional value in comparison to the 2 exam student. I like to get my money’s worth while I train you."

I'm an actuary at a large insurance company and am also in charge of our full-time actuarial student recruiting. (Student = still taking exams.) The thing about more exams not necessarily being better is correct -- there are definitly diminishing returns beyond two exams if you don't have the work experience to back it up. It also gives the impression that you think exams are the only key to success, which is not true in any good actuarial role.

The skill set that you need will vary somewhat between insurance and consulting, as well as between life, health, P&C, etc. Being great at pure math is all well and good, but you're not just doing complicated math problems all day, which is why someone with a graduate degree in Math or Stats isn't necessarily all that impressive. In fact, I often worry about candidates who I come across that seem "too academic" and wouldn't be able to handle the work environment very well.

I can't speak for every actuarial role, but at my company the actuaries are looked upon to rise up and become business leaders within the company. Our success is enhanced by our quantitive skills, which often differentiates us from people with pure business backgrounds. The job involves math, stats, accounting, computer programming, finance, insruance knowledge, as well as general business accumen. These are the kind of skills we try to assess when evaluating entry-level candidates, along with the usual communication and leadership abilities.

I am a health actuary with a national consulting firm in the midwest. We are always looking to hire new entry level students (actually for all levels right now). In the past 3 years, we have hired a former bartender and banker that decided to start taking exams. They both had at least one exam passed.

Do you have experience working with a database programming language such as SAS or SQL? That would be a strong skill set that we would look for. Communications skills and being a self-motivated individual are also very important.

I find the career very rewarding. Email me if you would like to discuss anything further.

Notthe1andonly wrote:

Career question: I am looking to switch "industries", and am considering studying for the actuary exams. I have a B.S. in economics from a state school, and would like to utilize it more than I currently am.

My question: Is it difficult to get an entry level actuary position with passing just the P exam? Or would I need to pass the FM as well? Or even more tests? I am currently employed full time in an unrelated field, and have the time (1-2 years left on my contract at my current employment) to study for one or two of the exams, but do not want to prolong it too much.

Any advice?

Thanks

Here is a response from my friend who for a midwest insurance company:

"I would tell him to start with just the P exam…most people get hired in with either just the P exam or P and FM. I wouldn’t recommend him taking any exams past FM until he gets an entry level actuarial position somewhere for a couple of reasons. First, almost all major companies pay for study materials (books, seminars, etc.) for exams and give actuaries study time for each exam. Second, without any prior actuarial experience, a company may be hesitant to hire someone with several exams because they will have to pay that person a higher salary due to all the exams they’ve passed. However, they don’t have any experience working as an actuary so they don’t really bring anything more to the table than an entry level actuarial candidate with just exam P or exams P and FM passed.

So in summary, I’d say definitely go for P. With a good resume and a good score (8 or higher…if he passes with a score lower than an 8 I wouldn’t put that score on my resume) on exam P he should be a viable candidate for an entry level actuarial position. If he’s feeling ambitious, he can knock out exam FM once he passes P…it could definitely help, but wouldn’t be absolutely necessary to get an entry level position."

Thank you all for your help! Easily one of the most positive and helpful threads on letsrun.

I'm an actuary in Missouri, member of the Casualty Actuarial Society and Member of the American Academy of Actuaries, and here are my thoughts on the profession. I usually tell people to stay away from the profession, and I say this even though I like my job. It's a PAIN to become one. My dad is a physicist, and we joke about how universities award more Physics PhDs each year than there are total members of the CAS (which is currently under 6000). Put it this way, with bad detective skills you should be able to figure out who I am, that's how few actuaries there are.

You have to ask yourself how much you like taking exams and how good you are at them, as that's what the profession boils down to. The first exam is tough yet fair (possibly because it's not written by the CAS or SOA). The next few exams are VERY tough yet usually fairly written. After that, the exams are obnoxious trick-fests, and you need to have more than math skills to pass them. Way too many people who know the material cold fail these tests. You will not advance in the field without passing exams, so the pressure on passing is unreal. Also, more and more companies will fire you if you don't pass exams in at a decent clip. While this has always been commonplace on the life insurance side, this is a new development in the property side.

The exam process leads to other issues as well. Way too many actuaries have this awful sense of entitlement, as they feel like they've earned their salary and the right to pick on lower level employees. Also, at a lot of companies there is a frustration in that lousy employees with good exam records get promoted while those who do excellent work and struggle with exams do not. It's a given that too many people view passing exams as the most important thing they've accomplished in their life.

For all I know, I might be the only member of the CAS who has run a sub 3 hour marathon. I haven't heard of one person who's been able to pass exams and race at a semi-competent level. Boy I hope I'm wrong and that there are faster actuaries than me, but I've searched and haven't found any. If you know of one, please let me know!!!! It's tough to find an actuary who has a serious hobby in anything outside of fantasy football, let alone running.

My exam record is admittedly horrible, and I would love to go back in time and see how good a runner I could have been if I chose a different profession. The whole process has taken a huge toll on me. And I thought I would kick butt in exams, as I graduated with good grades from a top 5 college (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Stanford). Boy was I wrong, as I've disgraced my family name time after time with each test that I failed! On the other hand, I live a simple, comfortable life in a great area of the country, and my hours are usually reasonable and I'm for the most part doing interesting work. Feel free to ask me more questions if you have anything specific.

Are there any other running actuaries out there (students or credentialed)? I'd love to put together a list of top marathon times run by an actuary!

Wow, what a thread! I'm currently taking classes in order to apply to a masters program in actuarial science. I know you don't need a masters in order to take the exams, but I'm 31 years old and would be changing fields, so I like the thought of rounding out my knowledge base a little. Here is the tentative schedule. All this while I'm working full-time and trying to run my best (currently a 1:53/4:16/15:30 guy and still improving). I figure two night classes per semester is about the max I can take without something slipping.

Already taken: Calc I & II (got A's)

Fall 2011: Discrete mathematics & theory of interest

Spring 2012: Calc III & study for GRE

Summer 2012: Stats I (discrete math was a pre-req for this)

If I'm accepted to the program:

Fall 2012: Stats II & Grad level actuarial intro class (theory of interest is a pre-req)

Spring 2013: Review for Exams 1 & 2 (these are actual classes for credit in the masters program - woohoo)

Summer 2013: Apply for entry-level actuary jobs

After that I'll have another year in the masters program which prepares you to take exams 3 & 4, and I can do all this at night while working during the day.

We'll see how it goes.

Yet another actuary wrote:

You will not advance in the field without passing exams, so the pressure on passing is unreal. Also, more and more companies will fire you if you don't pass exams in at a decent clip.

How long could a person last with just the P and FM under their belt?

Oh please, I passed the first two exams in highschool. They're just tests.