Smart Guys only - Analyse brief ole Vid of Ryun...

German Fernandez' form looks similar - upright, stiff-backed, long-legged.

The other thing I noticed is that he looks quite fast.

A man among boys.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. What kind of analysis are you looking for? His first 300 split?

cordner says in t&f that it was "2'46.6"

also reported in that was that ryun's 440y time ( it was 1/4M track so that has to be accurate time ) was

60.9

now, the brief vid shows that ryun went from start to 220y line in

14.3s

that is covering a distance of 91.82m in 14.3 or = pace for 440y of

62.7s !

this is pace to reach 300m in

46.7

& he was

~ 4+m

behind bailey at 91.82m

2'48.7 for last 3/4M in 3'33.1 for initial 300m ->

"1500m - 3/4 M" =

292.992m point in 3'33.1 - 2'48.7 ( according to q ) = 44.4s

proportion this upto 300m at even pace =

45.46

at 300m according to q

the article continues that they "dawdled thru 220y"

now, rest of vid shows ryun at least 8m ! behind bailey at ~ 350m in, before he chases after an accelerating keino to still be 3rd at 440y in 60.9

so it is likely

he got even slower from 91.82m to 350m as gap grew from 4m to 8m

it is highly, highly improbable that reaching 91.82m mark at 62+ pace, being 4m behind bailey & then being 8m behind him at 350m, before accelerating to 440y, which he reached in 60.9 is consistent with a 45.46s for 300m

theoretical 300m was in region of

~ 46.7

( & likely slower as gap went from 4m at 91.82m to 8m at 350m )

this is much slower than q's subtraction value of

45.5

they had no casios in those days to make these calculations instant, so it looks like :

q's 2'48.7 is likely value of

RYUN'S FINISHING TIME MINUS BAILEY'S TIME AT 300M

He ran the last "three-fourths mile in ...2:48.7" (The Milers, Roberto Quercetani)

While I find your analysis interesting, what kind of tool puts "smart guys only" in the title of his thread? Makes me want to troll more than ever.

Too bad it's not full length but fantastic to see at least some footage of this race after all these years.

The way he breaks from the line, stalking the field, shows the supreme confidence in his finishing speed, much like Ovett in his prime. He's just running to win; the 1500m WR happens because 800m WR speed makes it easy for him.

I don't get the comparison to Fernandez, a distance runner without the form to run a fast 800. At this peak (he had just turned 20) I would say Ryun was Ovett with a notch better 800 speed.

This says Smart guys only but is started by wetolin......

Which would be Cram.

route 67 wrote:

I would say Ryun was Ovett with a notch better 800 speed.

Part of the reason I select Ovett as the comparison is the racing style, the confident stalk and annihilating kick, which was Ovett's trademark. Cram was more willing to take pace and drive from the front.

route 67 wrote:

I would say Ryun was Ovett with a notch better 800 speed.

Ovett had faster PRs over both 200-400 and the long distances. And over 800, too, FWIW...

Their 800m PR's are very close. 1:44.09 for Ovett and 1:44.3(c) for Ryun. I give the edge to Ryun because he posted his mark at age 19 with a negative split, essentially solo and on a track of questionable quality. Whereas Ovett had many opportunities over a number of years to run competitive 800s on high quality tracks.

I'm not going to venture into a discussion of other distances. I'm a great admirer of Ovett and think it's a compliment to compare him to Ryun at his peak, which was fleeting.

He is my hero

route 67 wrote:

Their 800m PR's are very close. 1:44.09 for Ovett and 1:44.3(c) for Ryun. I give the edge to Ryun because he posted his mark at age 19 with a negative split, essentially solo and on a track of questionable quality. Whereas Ovett had many opportunities over a number of years to run competitive 800s on high quality tracks.

But he didn't, did he.

The EC in 1978 was the only fast race he ever found himself in when fit and not ill.

Montreal '76 was certainly fast and Ovett was fit enough to make the final. If you discount that because he was not yet at his peak career fitness, OK.

route 67 wrote:

Montreal '76 was certainly fast and Ovett was fit enough to make the final. If you discount that because he was not yet at his peak career fitness, OK.

Yep, he had the speed at that point but not the strength, and in '84 he was ill.

He did make 3 Oly finals in the 800, winning 1, Ryun never made a single Olympic team in that event.

looking in my old edition of Athletics Mel Watman states that Ryun's last 1200 was also 2:48.3.

I love how ventolin asks for smart guys and then just analyzes the whole thing himself. I am gonna start a thread to show how smart that I am.

In Montreal Ovett started in lane 8 and they didn't get to break until 300m into the race. Ovett has said this cost him quite a bit as he couldn't judge how close he would be to Juantorena or the rest of the field.

Both Ryun and Cram were tall guys whose signature championship move was from 300 out. Ovett was cagier and had quicker acceleration in tight quarters than both. As far as "taking the pace", just dial up some of Ryun's WR videos.

route 67 wrote:

Part of the reason I select Ovett as the comparison is the racing style, the confident stalk and annihilating kick, which was Ovett's trademark. Cram was more willing to take pace and drive from the front.

In Ryun's mile WR races, he had nobody to run with. If you dropped the Ryun of '67 into a very fast field, his preference would be to watch and stalk his main competition until the decisive moment, just like Ovett.

Cram had big races against Ovett ('83) and Aouita (WR '85) in which he led them out the entire race, letting them stalk him. That would not have been Ryun's style against serious competition.

What we are missing from the video of the '67 1500m WR is two laps of Keino running very fast while Ryun runs a step behind. That is exactly what Ovett would have done.

I'll give you that Ovett would have waited until 200 (or 100) to launch the kick.