Whats a good 3rd 5k workout?

All very good options. But there are a lot of details that need to be considered to answer that question.

Never neglect your long slow run (LSD). Even mid-distance runners benefit from the aerobic capacity one gains from the long runs.

Never neglect your long slow run (LSD). Even mid-distance runners benefit from the aerobic capacity one gains from the long runs.

I've seen this thrown around in virtually every training thread I've ever come across.

Why?

Where did the idea that doing one single long run had such magnificent aerobic benefits?

On the face of it, it really doesn't make that much sense. If it were actually such a brilliantly efficient manner of increasing aerobic capacity, then one should essentially forgo any other runs and focus on doing a long run every other day or as much as they can stand.

How can doing 'one long run' a week fundamentally alter the physiology of mid-distance (or even up to 10k, or hell, how about anyone?!) runners any differently than doing the same overall weekly volume in either more runs or more longer runs?

I've never heard of cyclists doing 'one long ride' to bolster their 'aerobic capacity'. On the contrary, lots of serious cyclists I've met seem to spend the same amount of time on the bike a couple of times a week. Is running so fundamentally different?

More musing aloud than anything, but the more I see this sentiment, the more intrigued I become.

Cheers for any insight.

The 2 sessions you list (an interval session at VO2 max and a tempo run at AnT) are fairly standard; where you pitch the third one depends on your background and strengths.

If you are coming off a track season with plenty of speed and your mileage is low (sub 50mpw) and/or if you are a more speed orientated runner, then I would suggest the longer tempo effort or just a long run as others have said.

However, if you are coming from a background of longer road races (marathon even) and are an endurance runner with little speed, then another interval session that gets you used to being anaerobic (like #1 or #2 your list) would be more suitable.

And, of course, the other sessions are viable options depending on background too. Either way, the first two sessions make the training 5k training, so use the third session to make the 5k training YOUR 5k training.

long run

questioner of the long run wrote:

I've seen this thrown around in virtually every training thread I've ever come across.

Why?

Where did the idea that doing one single long run had such magnificent aerobic benefits?

I, too, was a doubter of the long run as you are. Obviously, I agree with you that doing a high volume of miles (no matter the breakdown) is beneficial, and so I used to stick to doubles such as an interval session (AM) and a recovery run of 6-7M (PM). I had some moderate success with that formula, but I saw my performance stagnate. After discussing with a faster runner what his "secret" was, he was amazed that I didn't do a weekly long run. I live in Texas; it's a chore to run in the heat for so long. But after following his advice, I went ahead and experimented with the long run, starting out with 10M and then building up to 17M. I have since attained a PR at every distance, with the exception of the 5k, but that's a moot point since my PR of 15:47 was attained my senior of high school (I'm 37 now). I am, though, now flirting with sub-17s, which I haven't seen since HS. Everything else in my training regimen has stayed the same (intervals, tempos, etc); the only difference is the addition of one single long run for the week.

If you follow the training logs of some elite runners and those of collegiate programs, they all have the weekly long run, even for their MD-runners. An example: Oklahoma State, the defending 2-time NCAA XC champs:

I know you abhor reading more letsrun threads on the benefits of the long run, but this one is a good one:

To each their own, but I've found the longer tempo absolutely worthless for 5K training.

More beneficial would be doing 5x1200 at just a hair below race pace with 400m jogging recoveries. Don't try to crush this workout - you are setting yourself up for a bust on race day. This workout is more effective than a tempo because it mentally allows to LOCK INTO your race pace. A tempo sort of puts you in no man's land between and aerobic pace and a 5K pace.

You do these types of workouts to prepare yourself for the race. With the 5x1200, you are trying to simulate the pain of the 5K without having your eyes rolling back into your head.

Lol....I used to SWEAR by the long tempo and did those weekly while running my best times. I also did the 5 x 1200 intervals (I did 1300's) during that same time.

I felt those long tempos made me very strong (relatively speaking as I was a 16 5Ker).

RockyRococo wrote:

More beneficial would be doing 5x1200 at just a hair below race pace with 400m jogging recoveries.

Yes, of course that's a great workout, but the OP already said that he does an interval session, unless you're trying to say that he should have two interval sessions per week.

To my understanding, then, OP says he:

(1) Already has an interval session.

(2) Already runs a sustained-effort tempo (and we assume he means one of a shorter distance, and thus one run at a faster speed, since he wouldn't have posed the "longer tempo" run as his 3rd alternative.)

(3) He's asking what his 3rd "workout" run should be.

If you're suggesting a 3rd speed day, then, that's 3 quality speed/strength days, which may be borderline over-training. It takes at least 2 days to recover from a quality day. After all, he's training to be a racing stud, as opposed to a "workout king." And unless he disperses a lot of longer, slower recovery runs throughout the course of a typical week, he's just running too few mpw to stand much benefit. He needs to have some sort of aerobic-capacity-building runs (i.e. long runs), and he needs those even for a 5k, unless he wants to limit himself and tap into only half of his potential. He may be able to get away with all quality/ no quantity if he were an 800m runner, but even for a 5k, one needs to recruit aerobic/slow-twitch physiological factors.

I used to mix in speed work/fartlek, often barefoot on soccer fields or a park about once a week or 10 days. I'd go by time, and would do probably about 2 to 3 KM of faster than race pace to 800 pace.

One of my favorites would be sort of progression, starting 2 or 3 min at 5K goal effort; and then drop the duration and up the speed, to (2 to 4) 1.5 min or 1 min reps at mile pace, some fast (800 pace) 30 sec to 45 sec reps, and finish with a couple very fast (sprint) 15 to 20 sec reps.

Thanks for the info and I'll check out the other links.

But it seems that your condoning of the long run is purely anecdotal.

Might your improvement not have come from simply doing such a large quantity of runs (doubling) and then backing it off and stressing your body in another manner?

In your case it was the introduction of the long run but might similar effects occurred had you simply introduced a few more longer runs instead of one single long run?

Again, physiologically, a single long run still doesn't seem to make any sense at all.