List of Athletes Denied Entry into USAs Despite Fields Not Being Full

wejo wrote:

A simple solution to me seems to have designated field sizes. Then fill the field going down the descending order list until the field size is met. I don't see any reason why John Chaplin needs to decide if their should be 27 or 32 guys in the 800. Also, he shouldn't be able to decide on the day of the meet Abdi is in the 10,000m.

YES THIS.

That's what they did in 2008 for the Olympic Trials:

Why the heck can't we do that every year? It should be like NCAAs used to be... a pretty tough A standard and a fairly lax B standard. There should be no way that everyone with the B standard gets in and no way that an A standard overflows the field.

T&F OTs, USATF Outdoors, & NCAA DI T&F champs should be reduced to a 3 hour TV prime time broadcast TV weekend meet with finals only pattern after the European GP meets. The BCS supercomputers should be employed to seed with the best marks and times for the past calendar year.

The BCS Forever ! wrote:

T&F OTs, USATF Outdoors, & NCAA DI T&F champs should be reduced to a 3 hour TV prime time broadcast TV weekend meet with finals only pattern after the European GP meets. The BCS supercomputers should be employed to seed with the best marks and times for the past calendar year.

Pah. We just need our broadcasts to be not so retarded. Front page just pointed out 165 MILLION people watched the Jamaican National Championships on television. Those athletes have the hype AND the TV execs arent retarded.

Nowhere in your post did you come close to offering a viable recommendation. BCS supercomputers? Even if you're trolling, which I actually hope for your case you are, just save it if you aren't trying to help.

The arbitrary nature of admission seems to have only one semi-plausible explanation: to justify John Chaplin's existence and dysfunctional influence in the meet.

Let's be honest though. Those runners on the bubble would most likely not make any noise at the world championships - so what's the point of letting them in? If you're struggling to get into the field because of your on-the-bubble times what chance do you have at worlds? Zero.

If you are truly fast and a contender you will be allowed in the meet. If you are a pretender wishing to be good - Chaplin will weed you out.

Christian Smith was the last guy into the 800 in 2008 at the Olympic Trials and made the team.

POST REFUTED.

Truth Sayer wrote:

Let's be honest though. Those runners on the bubble would most likely not make any noise at the world championships - so what's the point of letting them in? If you're struggling to get into the field because of your on-the-bubble times what chance do you have at worlds? Zero.

If you are truly fast and a contender you will be allowed in the meet. If you are a pretender wishing to be good - Chaplin will weed you out.

You're missing the point. If you don't want to let runners in on the bubble just make the rules clear. It seems like the problem was letting people think they were going to run, and then after spending time and money to get to Eugene they were denied.

It's the arbitrary nature of the process that has everyone upset. Have a clear set of rules not just someone deciding on a whim who gets in and who doesn't at the last minute.

Truth Sayer wrote:

Let's be honest though. Those runners on the bubble would most likely not make any noise at the world championships - so what's the point of letting them in? If you're struggling to get into the field because of your on-the-bubble times what chance do you have at worlds? Zero.

The fact that the meet goes a long way to selecting the WC or Oly team is secondary to the fact that this is the national championship (or should be, at least).

No matter the likelihood of one of the last qualifers making the team, the fact of the matter is that cronyism, favoritism, corporate influence, or even the appearance of any of the above should be something that we aim to avoid.

I like the idea of simply setting an arbitrary number (say, 32 for anything run in lanes, 30 for all else (two heats of 15 or three of 10), 24 for field events), and simply going descending order list after an A standard and exemptions. The possible doomsday scenario, of course, is you hit something like the DMR a few years ago indoors, or swimming before they fully understood the effect of suits, and suddenly you have 40 people with an A cut.

Another option is to say that you'll take eight (or pick your number) people off the B list, regardless of the number of A cuts and exemptions.

But wejo is right - lay the rules out there, take away the arbitrary committee power. THAT power should be reserved solely for truly exceptional circumstances - for instance, Walter Dix sets the world record at 100m during a summer meet, but is hampered during the spring and can't get a qualifying time before the champs. That's a case where I'd say "yeah, add him to the meet."

Basically, Chaplin or his replacement should only be able to add people to an event, not at the expense of another athlete's spot.

Also, push the deadlines back a week. Put the declaration deadline out 10 days before the meet, not three days - try and head off some of the stuff like happened this year where people where already in Eugene before they could find out if they were allowed to run or not.

Wejo for USATF CEO!

Much of this problem is caused by the top-tier athletes who have qualified for several events and decide to scratch at the last minute. You can fine them if they scratch but that would lead to people going through a non-competitive charade to avoid a fine. Strike them with a deeper penalty. No World Championship team.

It seems like the dumbest part of all this is that they decide this stuff like the day of the meet, after everyone has made plans to attend/not attend. That's just stupid. If John Chap decided a month ago that he wanted an 800 field size of 27, sure, it would be ridiculous, but there'd be some justice. But when you have guys finding out on arrival to Eugene that they aren't competing something has clearly gone WRONG.

The BCS Forever ! wrote:

The BCS supercomputers should be employed to seed with the best marks and times for the past calendar year.

BCS supercomputer == 50 lines of python code running on a 386 in Bill Hancock's basement.

Truth Sayer wrote:

Let's be honest though. Those runners on the bubble would most likely not make any noise at the world championships - so what's the point of letting them in? If you're struggling to get into the field because of your on-the-bubble times what chance do you have at worlds? Zero.

If you are truly fast and a contender you will be allowed in the meet. If you are a pretender wishing to be good - Chaplin will weed you out.

True. But our bubble guys should be allowed in so that they get the experience of competing at a big meet and race like USATF. The experience of racing in that type of meet goes a long way. Plus they might get pulled to a faster time, then continue to train harder to improve.

The race is going to run in 4 heats anyway. The extra cost of allowing 4 more athletes in is very minimal. Allow them the experience so if they do make a breakthrough in a year or two, then they have some bigger races under their belt.

The last minute scratches play a big part in why it's decided at the last minute.

Listen up.1. If a 21-year-old college kid is on the bubble in 2011 he might be a 26-year-old contender at the 2016 US Olympic Trials. Instead, because she or he did not get the chance to compete and gain valuable experience and exposure, their contract was cancelled and they threw up their hands in disgust and decided to give up their dream of being a competitive runner and went the corporate route.Christian Smith, Trent Briney, Jenny Spangler. need I say more??? Use your common sense on this one.2. If USATF implies that someone should spend the money to get to nationals because they are within the field range of 30, only to have John MF Chaplin pulling the rug out from under them, that puts the onus on USATF.Your argument holds no water at all.

Truth Sayer wrote:

Let's be honest though. Those runners on the bubble would most likely not make any noise at the world championships - so what's the point of letting them in? If you're struggling to get into the field because of your on-the-bubble times what chance do you have at worlds? Zero.

If you are truly fast and a contender you will be allowed in the meet. If you are a pretender wishing to be good - Chaplin will weed you out.

Get rid of all time/dist/points/whatever standards. Just set a field size and go as far down the list as it takes. This field size will be published at the beginning of the qualifying period and can not be changed. All scratching/declaring must be done a week (at least, maybe two weeks) ahead of time. If you're a superstar and have been injured and can't hit the standard, try again next year. Keep in mind that athletes have a window of 1.5 years to hit the time. If you're injured/out-of-form for that long, the USATF should have the guts to tell you to f*** off. They certainly have the guts to tell that to the 28th guy on the 800 list.

I REALLY don't see what's so hard about this, Mr. Chaplin.

I have news for you guys: field size don't matter to the jerks at USATF either. In 2008 there was a field size and I know for fact that they denied entry to the meet to women in the 1500 who were in the top 30 after scratches. The woman I am thinking of actually traveled to Eugene (keep in mind that for the trials, if your race was in the second half, declarations weren't due until after the first half of the meet was over). THEN when you get there and aren't accepted into the meet, they won't give you a credential which means 1) you can't access any of the practice or medical facilities. 2) you can't get into the meet to watch! SO athletes travel all the way out there thinking that because they are within the PUBLISHED field size they will get into the meet, not only don't they get into the meet, they have to BUY tickets to watch the events (despite already paying for a non refundable entry feel).