Hall's Slow Mile Proves We're Not Like Swimming

That's good. Swimming with its various strokes (which all go the same short distances) can look like a real joke sometimes - usually when a Phelps-type goes through and destroys three versions of the 200m, three versions of the 100m... and so on and so forth.

Well even in swimming, no one who is winning the 50 or 100m is going anywhere near the 1500m in swimming. That's what you're comparing here - a marathon to a mile (which in comparison feels like a sprint). Meanwhile, a miler often is competitive at 800, 2000, maybe even 5000. A good marathoner may be competitive at 5000, 10000, HM, M, etc.

The joke of swimming to me is like dude above me wrote - the different strokes at the same distances. Is the back stroke REALLY so different from the freestyle that it needs to be a different event?

Phelps is just that good.

Didn't the current marathon world record holder break the 2 mile record a couple times?

It proves one thing: that HE is not like a swimmer. Many counter examples, and those usually are world champions. I hope Ryan learns something that is missing.

24 days after the marathon. He ran 4:17 yesterday, but mark my words, if he takes another try at it in 3 weeks he will be under 4:02.

I ran an all out marathon on April 30, and I am just starting to shuffle through 8:30 pace 3 mile runs (I ran 2:40 in the marathon). My race was 12 days after Boston, but still, in 12 days I see myself just barely having my legs under me again for the first time. Another 2 or 3 weeks after that would make all the difference.

SomeActualData wrote:

(And yes, the marathon to the mile is admittedly the extreme, so there's much less difference between, say, the 5k and 10k, but still ....)

This is not a small point. Swimming does have long distance events. Fina has a 10km swimming world cup series. A good men's time is under 1:55, comparable to a marathon.

The comparable swimming event to a running mile is the 400m freestyle. The long course world record for the 400m is 3:40

What evidence do you have that a competitive 10km swimmer would jump into a race and be competitive in the 400m, and vice versa? You've proven nothing.

The different strokes are actually less of a joke then you would think. The technique is very different in the butterfly compared to the breaststroke compared to freestyle or backstroke. Its like how a great tripple jumper may not be a good long jumper. This is why a butterflyer is not ever usually good at breaststroke. Phelps is just a freak which is why he is so good at all events.

I am pretty sure 4:17 means he gave up and jogged home. Hall should be running 4x4:17s with a couple mins rest in practice on a regular basis

SomeActualData wrote:

It just occurred to me that Ryan Hall's 4:17 mile is a nice demonstration that the different events in distance running are, in fact, different events. It's nice to know that we're not swimming, where if you're world-class in one event you're basically guaranteed to be world-class in a few others. Here, Hall ran one of the all-time great marathons by an American, yet his mile time falls short of what would be considered "elite" for high schoolers.

(And yes, the marathon to the mile is admittedly the extreme, so there's much less difference between, say, the 5k and 10k, but still ....)

Ditto

Haven't some runners dropped 4:2x miles during marathons? He should easily be able to run much faster than that in an open mile. Hall either hasn't been including enough speedwork in his training or he wasn't feeling good.

If you compare swimming then it would make sense to compare to sprints and that would be like having a 100m, 150m, 200m, 300m, 400m and 500m event. All those events normal, backwards, sidestep left and sidestep right. Easily someone could make 4-5 golds.

Asdzxc1019 wrote:

Haven't some runners dropped 4:2x miles during marathons? He should easily be able to run much faster than that in an open mile. Hall either hasn't been including enough speedwork in his training or he wasn't feeling good.

Yes, like the 16th or 22nd or 24th miles at Boston are usually really fast or First Ave in NYCM, but look at the elevation charts.

If Hall's opening quarter wasn't 60 or 61, he would've been faster overall. Crash and burn hurts, whether in the mile or the marathon.

Fishy wrote:

The different strokes are actually less of a joke then you would think. The technique is very different in the butterfly compared to the breaststroke compared to freestyle or backstroke. Its like how a great tripple jumper may not be a good long jumper. This is why a butterflyer is not ever usually good at breaststroke. Phelps is just a freak which is why he is so good at all events.

The techniques are different, but the different strokes are still a joke. The only meaningful stroke is the unregulated "freestyle", where you cover the specified distance using whichever technique is fastest for you. The other strokes are slower, regulated techniques.

The T&F analogy would be to the "100m skip", "100m backwards", "100m cartwheel" etc.

Maybe they're a joke to you. Tell that to the swimmers who spend years mastering a stroke besides freestyle. Just because track doesn't have an equivalent, don't demean those who swim competitively.

The different strokes in swimming are very different (with the possible exception of freestyle and butterfly, which admittedly have a lot of carryover). However, all four strokes require a high degree of technical competence and "feel" for the water, as well as a high degree of fitness, so obviously someone with all of these traits could theoretically be good at more than one stroke. Phelps is definitely a "one off" in that he is world class in three strokes of the four. It would be the equivalent of someone being world class in the long jump, high jump, and triple jump. However, his distance range is still pretty much from 100-400, which is a pretty narrow range.

One great difference between swimming and running is that there is no 9 second event in swimming, and there is also no equivalent to the 10000 or the marathon (at least not in the Olympics at this time).

Sean Nunn wrote:

and there is also no equivalent to the 10000 or the marathon (at least not in the Olympics at this time).

There is, they call it the 10k Marathon (at least that's what I found on Wikipedia). Seems to exist since 2008. And considering how long it will take to swim 10k, from an aerobic perspective, it's probably close to a marathon.

cheezewhiz wrote:

Maybe they're a joke to you. Tell that to the swimmers who spend years mastering a stroke besides freestyle. Just because track doesn't have an equivalent, don't demean those who swim competitively.

To be fair, track does have an equivalent to non-freestyle strokes: race walking. And it is regularly treated with just about as much respect around here as swimming's off-strokes are getting right now.

lots of different "strokes" involved in the pent,hept and dec.

This just shows us how much an advantage the downhill/wind aided course was in Boston. Hall is actually in shape to be a 2:20 - 2:24 marathon runner. So the wind was worth almost 20 minutes at Boston.