giving splits

I read split times for my middle school daughter when she runs the 800, but I don't say out loud, "1:10, 1:11, 1:12..." She and I might have a plan for her to go through the first 400 in 1:13 for example, and if she's right on I might say "13" or "you're right on" or if she's fast I might say "2 seconds fast". I can understand that it can seem unfair if it appears someone's giving "official" times out for just a portion of the racers and then stops when the slower ones come by. When my daughter is in high school, I probably won't mention a split "time" ever...just so that she doesn't get disqualified. We'll have to come up with a system..."you're 2 up" or "you're 2 down"...something like that, and if she's ever good enough or my son is ever good enough to make it to district, regional, or state competition, I'll keep my mouth completely shut.

I find it odd that they say a parent cannot give splits. I could see a problem with a coach doing it, if there were some rule, but how do you monitor what spectators do to that degree?

Also, most states allow runners to wear a watch. They can write targets down on their wrist and gauge themselves.

Racehorse wrote:

I find it odd that they say a parent cannot give splits.

Imagine 20 high school kids in a 2-mile. Now imagine 20 parents (in addition to all the officials, timing equipment, etc.) standing at the finish line calling out splits. Chaos.

I would NEVER call out splits for my kid during a race. Teenagers need to learn how to pace themselves... in workouts.

I record race splits for my daughter on my iPhone so she can review them after the race, because coaches can't always get splits for every kid they have out there, but during the race, I want my kid's head in the race, not listening to mommy or daddy.

Talk about some rule maker that is completely out of touch with the sport! I believe that it goes back to the cry babies that want everyone to get a winners trophy. They get upset when someone else tries to get the most out of themselves and it might make them feel bad about themselves. Boo hoo.

Let's kill development of kids. Is it all supposed to be about feel? Maybe we should not run the clock at football games either. The official can just blow a horn at the end of the game.

I've heard of this rule before, but my dad and I do the thing that Flagpole suggested, "two seconds ahead" etc.

I have a son and daughter who are competitive 3200 runners in high school. They generally have their splits memorized and watch the clock by the start/finish line.

But I still often yell splits to them, but not at the finish line. I got to the end of the first curve (at 500) and do it from there. That way it doesn't interfere and no one complains.

As for pacing, believe me they can pace! My daughter is on the verge of breaking 11:00, and the needs to know if she's at 81 or 84. She knows her planned splits, but if she gets a little off, that feedback is good.

Racehorse wrote:

I find it odd that they say a parent cannot give splits. I could see a problem with a coach doing it, if there were some rule, but how do you monitor what spectators do to that degree?

Also, most states allow runners to wear a watch. They can write targets down on their wrist and gauge themselves.

Some rules are just odd. Some starters and officials like complete control over a meet and don't want parents interfering in any way; just like some are VERY strict about the "no jewelry" policy and others don't care at all. I just accept that as a given and try not to push the envelope, even though I think that mindset is odd as you do. As I do here at Letsrun, in the real world I also try to maintain the most joyous, most constructive, most helpful demeanor.

Not sure where your son races, but here is the USATF rules (2010) for pacing. Interpret however you want.

The following shall not be considered assistance:

(d) Verbal or other communication, without the use of any technical device,

from an individual who is not in the competition area to an athlete who is

in the competition area. In order to facilitate this communication and not

to disturb the staging of the competition, it is recommended that a place in

the stands, close to the immediate site of each field event, be reserved for

the athletes’ coaches.

7. Intermediate times and preliminary winning times may be officially announced

and/or displayed. Otherwise such times must not be communicated to the ath-

letes by persons in the competition area without the prior approval of the

Referee. This permission shall only be given when there are no time displays

visible to athletes at the relevant point and in circumstances where such times

will be provided to all athletes in the race.

"Competition Area" is defined here:

RULE 140

COMPETITION AREA

The competition area is defined by the Games Committee. It is normally the area

where the competition is being staged, physically separated from the area used by

spectators. The designated areas, including that at road races, shall be clearly marked

with fencing, banners, flags, or other suitable material to clearly indicate which area

has access restricted to competing athletes and other authorized personnel.

What's up with the mommy or daddy jab? I've been to two track meets as a father in my life. I'm just trying to figure it out man so cut me a fricking break. And as far as the chaos of 20 parents in addition to all the officials standing at the finish line calling out splits. I can't find one other parent who gives a crap. And no officials were reading out splits. Nobody was doing anything. And there was no visible clock.

But okay now I know the stupid rule thanks everybody.

And yes I wrote down my son's splits and went over them with him afterwards but not because the coach can't always get splits for every kid they have out there. I did it because i don't think it's occurred to the coach and nobody on the team gets splits and nobody discusses pacing or strategy at all.

Which raises another issue. I have a lot more questions about how involved I should get, what if anything can a father do about the fact that the track program at my son's school is utterly lame and nobody seems to have any problem with that.

And hey lemon drop if you answer this one you don't have to be high and mighty about it. i get that you know more than me on the subject. That's why I'm asking the questions instead of answering them.

Not Forgetting, I'm assuming you are also the OP, Track Dad (?).

Sorry if I came off as a little snarky. I'm actually relatively new to parenting a runner myself, and certainly don't think I have all the answers here.

That said, I think it's important to remember that part of your role as a parent in supporting your child's running is supporting the coaches and volunteers who make track and field happen for these kids, whether they are good at it or not. Generally, these volunteers receive very little in the way of reimbursement or appreciation for their efforts. Many of these people have little background or training in this sport. Be patient with them.

I can understand your frustration. I just returned from a meet. I could list at least six serious problems with the race my daughter participated in. The crazy shenanigans from officiating snafus to competitive silliness were mind boggling.

It's easy to sit in the stands and come up with the zillion things you'd do differently if you were the coach, or the official, but you're not, so my

advice is to try and fill in the gaps where you can with your kid, i.e., teach him race strategy, pacing, how to start, how to pass, all that stuff, and do this away from team meets or practice. There are elements to my daughter's training that are missing in her school track program, but I'm

not going to say a word about it to the coaches. I can see they have their hands full.

I'm also careful not to badmouth a coach within earshot of my kid. I want her to have a good relationship with her coaches. I want her to have a

positive experience with running, even if it means I have to lower my standards because her coaches aren't as perfect as the coaches I grew up with.

Believe me, I understand the challenges you're talking about, but seriously believe that if you are not the coach, the way to handle the gaps in teaching or training is by supplementing the program privately with your kid, rather than criticizing the coaches.

I'll just add that in the short time my runner spouse and I have been parents of a *runner* the joy in watching our daughter enjoy this sport the way we did growing up far outweighs any frustrations we've experienced. So be sure to take a moment and appreciate the simple fact that your kid chooses to run.

I come at it from every angle. I am a parent, a coach and an official. As a coach and/or parent, I position myself at the 300m mark, outside the fence, across from the finish line. I give splits from there and don't worry about breaking any rules.

As an official, I don't want coaches or parents inside the fence, communicating with the athletes.

If it is a dual meet, early in the season, who gives a shit?

400m lap times should be called out by an official at all meets - unfortunately as the op points out it is often neglected - not just at jr hi but also hs and even at collegiate events i have attended. like many others i hangout on the backstretch directly across from the st/finishline and do my cheering/coaching from there - in 30+ years i have never had anyone complain. Whenever i end up working a meet as a timer i almost always appt myself lap split caller - rarely has there ever been someone else assigned. kids do need to learn pacing during practice but they should definitely be supplied with accurate lap splits during competition.

just the simple facts wrote:

400m lap times should be called out by an official at all meets

This. Either verbally called out or a clock visible at the side of the track. That's the intent of the rule cited above (pretty much the same as the IAAF's).

One solution is to go to the referee at the start of the meet and volunteer to call out lap splits for all athletes for all multi-lap races.

Elapsed time is easy to call out you need one official/approved volunteer

To individually split each runner for every lap in every event would require an army of timers.

All or none are the only two choices.

Dont hover over the start/finish line when giving the splits.

If you want to insist on being in the start/finish ask if you can call splits for the whole race.

Kids dont need splits called out to race well, having them and discussing them afterward is helpful.

thanks for posting some good advice - but otherwise, advice to everyone: "don't be a 'little league' parent" - nobody wants to see that. i was top 5 in my state in xc, indoor and outdoor ... my parents never called a split a day in their life, but one of them was always there at every track meet, cross country meet or road race being supportive when i ran well or when i finished DFL - that is what kids need, not sideline coaches.

dutchrudder wrote:

Dont hover over the start/finish line when giving the splits.

If you want to insist on being in the start/finish ask if you can call splits for the whole race.

Kids dont need splits called out to race well, having them and discussing them afterward is helpful.

realtime answers wrote:

Elapsed time is easy to call out you need one official/approved volunteer

Technically you are correct - it is 'elapsed time' that is called out, not 'splits'.

But many use the term interchangeably.

Athletics fans on an Athletics focused site should speak "track". Asking for split times to be called out for each runner is a different request than asking that elapsed time be announced at intermediate distances.

Um, yeah wrote:

realtime answers wrote:

Elapsed time is easy to call out you need one official/approved volunteer

Technically you are correct - it is 'elapsed time' that is called out, not 'splits'.

But many use the term interchangeably.

...and many are wrong.

That clarification about elapsed time is very helpful. I was using the wrong jargon. In other words, if someone just reads the time off the watch (because there is no visible clock) then that's not a problem. And it's up to the athlete to know what elapsed times he's aiming for at each lap.

I read out elapsed time in his individual event. But I read out a 1-lap split for his leg of the 4 x 800 and I guess that's what got me into trouble.

I still think it's a silly rule but like the other commenters pointed out there are a lot of silly rules at the high school level. It's not as bad as getting DQ'd for a friendship bracelet.

And Flounder, good point about not being a little league parent. What's unfamiliar to me is that the coaching I had at every level was first-rate. In high school we used to just roll over all those lame programs in town that didn't take the sport as seriously. It's a little uncomfortable for me to find myself on the other side.

But the main thing is to just be grateful my son has chosen to go out for the sport that gave me so much pleasure. It's organized his whole life and his grades have just shot up since he started running. So what I am complaining about?